Posted By RBW100 My view would be that the value of the union rep would very much depend upon the person in the role. My experience is that some reps are great and some are not so good. The main issue I have with the not so good ones is that their colleagues take their advice as being gospel (as you would expect), so when this advice is wrong it can lead to problems/confrontation with managers. As with H&S professionals, it all depends on the person. Rob

Posted By jervis Pete i agree with what you are saying not every one wants to be a safety rep it helps if you have an interest in it. In my case i am a dual rep or jack of all trades! Thanks for both quick replies.

Posted By William O'Donnell I believe that the answer lies in how you describe yourself, it is interesting that it is as a 'union' rep rather than an employees rep. As an ex-union shop steward myself I can appreciate the difference. Many union reps spend their time demanding their rights, and talking about their power. I always found it interesting that when there was a dispute the union would call a "work to rule", effectively threatening to cause trouble by following the 'safety rules'. As for their knowledge, I have lost count of the number of times union reps have totally misquoted legislation to me.

Posted By jervis William how long ago where you a union rep all sound a bit old school to me. How many times have you bad advice from a non-union rep. I have gained a lot from being a union rep and would be the first to admit some times i do get things wrong I'm only human. I gained my TECH IOSH which means a lot to me i have also have a employment law diploma and many other certificates and knowledge under my belt. You always get the bad and good where ever you work look at the positive side of things unions have done for there members and non members.

Posted By stephen d clarke Hi, The following research seems pertinent to the discussion - overall findings are that representatives have a significant role to play in improving H&S. http://www.hse.gov.uk/research/rrpdf/rr363.pdf Steve

Posted By warderic I think you are both proving my point.

Posted By jervis Thanks Pete 48 for your reply.

Posted By steven bentham Over the years I have come across a number of different safety representatives in the public sector. I have noticed that the Trade Unions have invested in the safety training of reps, some not far behind the 'lower' level of safety advisers. Safety reps are supposed to represent the workforce with regard to safety at the workplace. But they are not legally responsible for resolving problems - fair enough. I have also noticed that many managers in the public sector have sometimes had no safety training at all!!, some don't have management training!!, or perhaps they have had a basic safety presentation by a safety adviser!! You see many postings on this site by safety advisers trying to get a free presentation for their managers!!!. Is this adequate? The in-balance- the reps who report problems are better trained than the managers who are legally responsible for the safety of the workforce! I can understand how safety reps must be driven up the wall by managers who are not particularly well trained either in safety or anything . .

Posted By Raknruin HI I have been a safety rep for 2 years and I have loved every minute of it. I work at a large factory with 800 staff and we have 14 safety reps and 6 shop stewards looking after us all. I turned down the opportunity to be a shop steward because I have witnessed first hand the conflict of interests this could bring. I whole heartedly agree that the effectiveness of the rep is dependant of the person dong the job. I am know as one of the more active union reps on site but in no way am I militant or aggresive. I prefer to sit down with the management and discuss things, most of the managers appreciate this approach and from that I have forged some good working partnerships, of course some managers are (cretins)resistant to advice or help and think that becasue you are a union rep that you are going to cause trouble. Some of the reps I work with are reps by name only, they contribute little and care only for the time off the shop floor, but that is the same in all walks of life. If you get a person with good communication skills who actually care for the workforce then you will get a good rep who will contribute to the workplace. My conveener has a term for it "bring the person, not the title" I think that sums it up.

Posted By Nigel Bryson Jervis Let’s start with the evidence: ‘Workplace research provides strong evidence to suggest that involving workers has a positive effect on health and safety performance. Equally, there is overwhelming evidence that unionised workplaces and those with health and safety representatives are safer and healthier as a result.’ ‘Overwhelming evidence’: this would appear to indicate a success story. This is quoted from the HSE proposed Strategy. While it has been a long time coming – first academic study in the UK showing the link was in 1995 – it highlights added value. So – generally – trade union H&S Reps add value. It seems logical to think that out of an estimated 150,000 volunteer trade union H&S Reps some might not be too good. That position applies to all professions, never mind volunteers. The important thing is that they collectively add value. It is equally clear that if management culture is to work against Reps, progress is limited. I am aware of H&S Reps who dig in and use their legal powers to force improvements on a resistant management. However this tends to sustain an adversarial culture where progress is seen by whether managers or Reps can ‘get one over’ on each other. It cannot produce long term continuous improvement. While the trade union support is one reason for their success, I – and others – believe that it is the training given by unions that makes the big difference. HSE research has confirmed this view. By training H&S Reps to understand the law; principles of prevention; and how to effectively represent people, they: 1 Assist managers develop safe systems of work, procedures, etc that reflect operational reality; and 2 Act as ‘independent auditors’ who can check whether the systems etc are being fully implemented. As they work alongside employees they can close the ‘reality gap’ between administrative aspirations and the applied working methods. If managers embrace this approach and work jointly with H&S Reps – supporting their functions to inspect, investigate etc – health and safety standards can be excellent. The TUC and affiliated unions have many examples where huge improvements in health and safety standards have been made, normally underpinned by joint management/H&S Rep training. However quite a lot of managers do not understand that H&S Reps are being trained to represent people. They are not being trained to be health and safety ‘experts’, ‘advisors’ or ‘managers’. Roles need to be understood. Hence the real value of joint training. People support what they help create. Trade union H&S Reps can help managers develop health and safety systems that can be sustained. However, it is the senior directors and managers who have to lead and support this joint effort. So I think that every trade union H&S Rep should be thanked for voluntarily going into the office of the person who holds their contract of employment - their livelihood - and pointing out to them where they think the organisation is going wrong. Cheers. Nigel