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#1 Posted : 02 April 2009 09:24:00(UTC)
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Posted By Safe System Hi All, If i want to train the following in-house what do i need to do (i.e. certain courses). And before people start suggesting - YES, I am experienced! - Risk Assessing - Manual Handling Thanks!
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#2 Posted : 02 April 2009 09:38:00(UTC)
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Posted By holmezy SS, you could train them now, however, if anything happens in the future you may be asked to prove your competency. So, with that in mind''' IOSH do a Risk Assessment course which is very good, but you are probably OK with RA's? HSL (and others) do "train the trainer" courses which allow you become CIEH registered which is an accepted level of competence. Holmezy
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#3 Posted : 02 April 2009 09:39:00(UTC)
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Posted By garyh Doh...your question is too vague to answer properly? OK I will try - a training package (eg powerpoints, handouts, exercises, notes etc), a room, tables, chairs, computer, projector, tea & coffee............and so on. Is this what you are looking for?
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#4 Posted : 02 April 2009 09:51:00(UTC)
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Posted By Safe System Hi Gary, It was answered above but thanks. we have all the equipment, training rooms etc.. as we run a confined spaces training course from here as well as a few others.. cpcs etc..
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#5 Posted : 02 April 2009 09:52:00(UTC)
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Posted By Safe System Yes - I carry out Risk Assessments daily etc.. but like you said it is about proving competence and it seems to be the thing now that you can't really prove it unless you have a piece of paper.. so looking to get something to say that i have been audited or similar and deemed competent to carry out risk assessments etc..
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#6 Posted : 02 April 2009 11:02:00(UTC)
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Posted By Raymond Rapp Forever looking for some common sense...if I was asked to provide RA training and someone queried my competence I would respond with a MSc in H&S Management, MA in H,S&E Law and a Chartered Member of IOSH. Do I really need another piece of paper to deliver RA training? No. Will I will need an NVQ to deliver TBTs next!
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#7 Posted : 02 April 2009 12:36:00(UTC)
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Posted By holmezy Raymond, Yes, tried that argument with HSE, and even though I don't have as many quals as you, thier answer was, along the lines of.... "in terms of education, you have demonstrated an ability to learn, not necesarily a competence to teach or train" Similarly, to become a registered CIEH trainer, (I think) they require a relevant and high enough qualification in your choosed subject, AND a relevant accredited teaching or training award. Its a good interesting course that the HSL provide, so why not? Holmezy
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#8 Posted : 02 April 2009 12:46:00(UTC)
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Posted By Bob Youel Just because you have an academic qualification and/ or vast experience in a craft etc does not mean that you can train and educate re that qualification etc in a proper manner. So your question is "how do I become a proper trainer / educator so as I can then use my current knowledge to pass it across properly in a training etc situation" There are many courses you can take i.e. C&G 7307 etc that you can take that will start you on the road to being a competent trainer The 'sitting next to Nelly' days are over but we should not forget that Nelly may make a good trainer is she was trained to train Best of luck
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#9 Posted : 02 April 2009 13:16:00(UTC)
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Posted By DPK This was a point i was attempting to make on a thread in the latter part of last year. Just because you know a subject does not make you a competent teacher of that subject, lets use an accountant for example, knows maths inside out and upside down, but is he/she allowed to teach in the main stream schools or colleges? NO. Why not? Because they have no teaching qualifications. So with this in mind, what would make the same accountant suitable to train in the workplace, who has taught him/her to teach? I think you will find even the basic teaching qualification such as 7307 / 7304 will help you no end in training in the workplace. DPK
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#10 Posted : 02 April 2009 13:38:00(UTC)
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Posted By Raymond Rapp To be fair I was really commenting on in-house training, which I thought was the topic of the original thread. I have provided all sorts of in-house training but only on general health and safety matters, not manual handling or driving FLTs. For providing external training it may be good practice to have some form of training/teaching qualification. However, a recent thread identified that no formal qualifications are needed for the provision of health and safety training. I really think that some people over complicate matters in the first place. I have been on train the trainer courses and sat through numerous training/educational courses. Surely I am able to provide basic health and safety training without the need for more qualifications - let's try sensible safety. If a HSE officer asked I would tell them the same!
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#11 Posted : 09 April 2009 22:04:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jarrad Williams A cleaner was sick of having to continuously clean lipstick of the mirrors in the female toilets. So he complained to the Head Master. The Head Master sick of the caretakers complaining decides to resolve the issue and gets the girls and caretaker together. The Head Master goes to great lengths to explain to the girls about the issue of lipstick on the mirrors and how this is causing the cleaner unnecessary work. After 15 minutes of waffling the Head Teacher turns to the cleaner to gain his approval for his lecture. The cleaner unimpressed takes his mop and places it in the toilet bowl and proceeds to clean the mirrors with the mop, stating 'and this is how I clean the lipstick of the mirrors' Now there are trainers and there are educators
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#12 Posted : 09 April 2009 23:37:00(UTC)
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Posted By Ron Hunter Lot's of discussion here about competency of the trainer, but what of pre-requisites and post-course evaluation of those to be tasked with undertaking Risk Assessments? Attending a 1 or 2 day course does not necessarily a competent assessor make.
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#13 Posted : 10 April 2009 00:20:00(UTC)
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Posted By Ron Hunter Or to put it another way, YOUR competency can be demonstrated in practice when those you train then (in turn) produce suitable and sufficient risk assessments? Who in your Organisation has the task of determining whether or not R/As are indeed suitable and sufficient? I'm guessing that's down to you as well! :-)
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#14 Posted : 10 April 2009 00:22:00(UTC)
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Posted By GaryC40 Several years ago, I attended a risk assessment training course, run by the local college. The college mainly caters for council workers; however courses are also available to local businesses. The objective of the course was stated in the workbook provided, it states: - By the end of the course, all participants will be able to: ? State the basic principle of risk assessment and the stages involved in carrying out risk assessments in practice; ? describe the key legislative requirements on risk assessment; ? list a range of hazards and effective measures to control them; ? to define correctly the meaning of hazard and risk; ? carry out, record, monitor and review risk assessments. The course was completely classroom based, except for myself and one other colleague; all delegates were local authority administration workers. The format was simple; in the morning, we learnt about MHSAW and after this, we were all given a list of ‘common’ hazards to identify. The tutor (an qualified educator and deliverer of course material with no formal HS qual!) at no point encouraged the class to consider hazards that could exist in their own working environments, presumably because they did not match with the course work! The list of hazards we were requested to identify included, a tiger in an open cage and a loaded gun, one of the delegates cleverly pointed out that a suitable control measure would be to don Nike trainers and run away. At this point, that would not have been a bad idea…from the course! The point I am attempting to make, is that the tutor had given little consideration to the students background, ability or experience, the exercises given throughout the day bore absolutely no relevance to the everyday hazards the class were likely to experience. I left the course with the knowledge that a tiger and loaded gun could be extremely dangerous. This ‘new’ information was correct, however I suggest was not particularly relevant, at least not to me. A complete waste of time. This trainer now teaches HS to School kids and claims to be competent because of holding a brand new NGC. Whoooa Recently, I was involved in arranging Risk Assessment training for our Joiners. The courses were run by a consultant and myself. I pre-arranged with the consultant that relevant written safety procedures and Risk Assessment documents should be used during the coursework. We also decided to look at a cross section of relevant common hazards that operatives could face, and based the training on how to effectively control or eliminate those hazards by encourage debate. After briefing operatives on legislative theory, we arranged for each of them (in groups of two) to carry out a practical Risk Assessment of the Joiners Workshop and surrounding operational areas. This had been pre-arranged and proved very effective. I am not a ‘seasoned expert’ when it comes to training, however, I strongly suggest that training should be based on relevant real life working scenarios. I also suggest strongly that practical ‘hands on’ training delivered by an experienced person with good communiaction is likely to be much more effective than classroom only, theory based training delivered by a ‘teacher’reading from pre-written rext or powerpoint. Bit of an epic but important to me! I only came on this site as a break from PGc study! Goodnight! GC
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