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Posted By Southerner
I see them all the time and never know whether to pay my respects......or whether its just some little scrote who crashed a stolen car.
Either way I don't really like them and told my family not to do the same for me should I die in a bike crash.
Some of the ones in derby shire (One on the A52 in particular) is in the most stupidest of places on a very busy section, every year when they pop up I wonder how the hell they got there without getting in the way of traffic or risking their own life.
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Posted By Ron Hunter
Not the tributes perhaps, more the risks some will take to place & maintain them. This can include inappropriate parking on high speed roads & walking on live carraigeway often in poor visibility.
A very significant issue where the area (by virtue of local conditions etc.) is already an accident black-spot.
As for distraction, I suggest this is no worse than the general proliferation of authorised (and unauthorised) road information and instruction signs, hoardings, fly-postings, etc. in our modern built environment.
Not forgetting the occassional very attractive member of the opposite sex walking along the footpath, which can result in a "fender bender" -I've witnessed that!
;-)
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Posted By Paul Duell
**every year when they pop up I wonder how the hell they got there without getting in the way of traffic or risking their own life**
When a friend of mine died in a bike crash, the Police were very supportive in helping the family visit the scene, and return after the funeral to place flowers, in safety.
However I'm sure generally you're right. I suspect the majority are placed without any assistance or thought for appropriate controls.
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Posted By Martin Mulholland
Southerner
"just some little scrote who crashed a stolen car"
What a great attitude you have.
Have a word with yourself.
Marty
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Posted By Richard Altoft
Worked in the Middle East for a while,where crashed cars incl personal possessions and blood etc was left on side of road for a week or two and then left in front of local police station to increase awareness of consequences of unsafe use of roads.
Distracting possibly but thought provoking certainly.
R
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Posted By Southerner
Marty, when you have worked in areas blighted by idiots who steal cars and bikes (including your own) for fun then end up killing themselves......you will have little sympathy either.
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Posted By stephen d clarke
Hi,
Speaking personally I think it is a good idea to have some notice, memorial etc that someone died on the road here - whenever I see a serious accident/damaged vehicle on the side of the road I always slow right down, for me it has an immediate effect.
Steve
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Posted By Safe System
It does have a sobering effect..
however..
One kid died near us in a hit and run (all over a football match - disgusting) ..all very sad..
They put flowers up as a respect, more and more people joined, in the space of 10 days.. 4 more accidents, 1 of them major caused by people looking at them.
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Posted By Pete48
So, if there is an accident black spot and everyone decides to place a memorial and wants to keep it indefinitely at what point does it become impossible to fit all the tributes onto the spot at which the tragic death occurred? How high, wide and deep should the area that is acceptable for memorials become? Would a family recently bereaved be happy if they to place a memorial 100 yards from the spot?
Answer those questions and you have the answer as to why there needs to be some common sense with such matters. Nothing to do with safety just practicality.
As to any safety value. It is a sign, a notice nothing more. It may mean much more to those who knew the person but to me it is nothing more than an indication that someone died at that spot at some time in the past. Since so many people do die on our roads every year I am not surprised to see such signs occasionally, if it is at a black spot I am even less surprised. Is it a distraction? No more than any other road side situation. Today I was driving along a lane and around a corner I came across a most wonderful display of primroses all along the bank.
Was I distracted? Yep you bet. Do we dig up all the primroses? No, that would be silly wouldn't it?
Brake suggest the memorials have some impact as warning or reminder signs. How effective are signs at improving road safety? Ask yourself how many times a day you see someone disregard a stonking great warning sign, or rush past speed limit signs or ignore lane markings on a complex junction and you will see how effective they are. When new they have some impact but it is short lived.
Leave people to mark their grief and respect if they wish but then it becomes a clearance issue and the 12 weeks seems a reasonable compromise to me.
Safety concerns-none, safety impact-negligible.
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Posted By Brett Day
I'd be inclined to disagree with the safety impact being minimal, where I live there are several of these road side tributes all have serios safety implications - one is on a dual carraigeway and rather being on the pavement alongside the road is placed on the centre armco - to date two friends of the deceased have been seriously injured replacing flowers, this is now five years on ! One person has parked half on the centre divide, half on lane two.
Another tribute near me is on a junction with poor visibility - the flowers are normally tied to signage and lamp posts at drivers eye level further reducing visibility.
I am aware of several accidents involving these tributes, they are the despair of our local traffic division.
Driving 30 - 40k a year I see a lot of these and wonder how many accidents or near misses these have caused and am very much against them.
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Posted By GaryC40
I think this is a complex and very difficult issue - one could rate it as a hazard or as a control measure. I live and work in rural location with a very high road accident and fatality rate (for many reasons) anyway i pass 'tributes' of flowers (x 3) everyday driving to and from work and they certainly make me think of my own mortality and heighten my awareness of the 3 'black spots'.
I wonder if we all have been a young 'scrote' at some point in our lives, in one way or another? Either way, having such a cold attitude to someones life (even a scrotes)is ultimately down to personal view and experienece, however is this an approprate statement to be posted on 'professional' health and safety forum? I think not.
GC
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Posted By Peter F
Well put Pete48,
I think when someone you love dies common sense goes out the window for a while and at times so does your safety and he safety of others whilst you grieve and put out your memorials.
The signs are official now anyway in the form of 'Remember me' and a photograph on at the site that someone has died in a road accident.
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Posted By Martin Mulholland
Southerner,
Everyone has worked in areas blighted by idiots who steal cars and bikes for fun then end up killing themselves - this, unfortunately, is a too common occurrence in the UK.
However, I cannot condone attitudes that suggest that the death of such an individual is in any way deserved.
If you adopted that attitude in a workplace setting - would you have any sympathy for someone who had previously adopted some unsafe working practices and had had a fatal accident?
I sincerely hope not.
Marty
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Posted By Southerner
Completely different.
Read my post, i merely stated that I did not have respect for these people. I do not wish death upon them, but I wont pay my respect to them like I would to someone who had been innocently killed by them.
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Posted By justgossip
Someone died and you ban the tribute of a few flowers by the roadside.
what a poor society we now live in.
If one is going to ban then we need evidence to support this ban.
How many casualties per year due to roadside floral display?
If you cannot answer the question, the answer is obvious.
Garry
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Posted By Faye
12 years ago my infant nephew was killed in a RTA and i too left flowers to mark my respects at the roadside. Many others left their's along with teddies and toys. The Local authority removed the tributes after a period of time and initially i was very angry.
My family were never given the opportunity to place a lasting reminder at the spot where the accident happened bacause it was deemed 'public open space'.
As a H&S person i think a sensible balance has to be reached. While the families may want a memorial of some description, nobody wants to be distracted from their driving by mass tributes which both sadden and possibly upset people. BUT the families feeling have to be considered.
It would be simple if a lasting memorial could be placed, ie being able to plant a tree, place a seat or a small tribute of some description. Some would argue that tributes should remain in cemetries or crematoriums but that is not always possible. Even if tributes were an option, sadly, as has been found in some graveyards, it is open to vandalism or theft.
There is no easy answer to this one and even legislation and guidance is not going to help.
How many people already ignore rules that are designed to keep them safe and this is far more likely in such a highly charged emotional state. Rules or no rules, people will be people, and act on their feelings.
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Posted By Southerner
"How many casualties per year due to roadside floral display?
If you cannot answer the question, the answer is obvious.
Garry"
Garry,
The point within the safety profession is to assess risk.
A risk assessment has been done, the risk is very high, the consequences fatal, the task is unnecessary. Therefore eliminate the risk completely.
H&S is supposed to be proactive.......would you prefer a reactive approach to health and safety and wait for a couple of people to die first?
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Posted By clairel
Whilst I appreciate grief, I have been unfortunate enough to have had many loved ones die as well, I am not convinced by the need for memorials at the site of a death. We do not place memorials in the houses where loved ones die so I'm not sure why it should happen by the side of the road.
From a safety point of view it does place those who are trying to access the site at danger.
I also find the memorials distracting to me as a driver and as this is often at accident blackspots (eg,tight bends) it really is the last thing that is needed.
One last annoyance is the rubbish it creates as many people leave flowers in plastic wrapaping and other items of memorabilia (bike wheels even!).
I'm not uncaring, of course memorials are important, and trees can be planted or benches donated in appropriate spots where the person can be remembered. I just do not think this should necessarily be at the site of any accident, including roads.
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Posted By justgossip
I have to date not come across one shred of evidence that conclusively proves that road side flowers are a primary cause of traffic accidents.
I do not understand how one can currently conclude the level of risk.
It could be councils just take a guess and then guess what action to take. That would seem to be in line with most councils approach to any problem.
Given the track record of prosecutions against councils they would be far more effective in the field of H&S if they made an attempt to deal with real risk.
Garry
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Posted By Brett Day
Just Gossip
As per my previous thread:
"one is on a dual carraigeway and rather being on the pavement alongside the road is placed on the centre armco - to date two friends of the deceased have been seriously injured replacing flowers, this is now five years on ! One person has parked half on the centre divide, half on lane two.
Another tribute near me is on a junction with poor visibility - the flowers are normally tied to signage and lamp posts at drivers eye level further reducing visibility."
This info came from discussion with my local police traffic division, presumably they would also be passing this info onto the LA if nothing else the items are removed by street cleaners.
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Posted By Bob Shillabeer
Has anyone given the family any thought in this before rushing off and saying how dangerous this is. Forget how the accident happened, someone who was very much loved by his or her family has been killed. Most drivers are aware of the risks of distraction when driving so tend to ignore such tributes after they ahve seen it once, I do. There are many distractions on our roads which can be more distracting than some flowers. Yes there may well be a risk to someone putting the flowers in the central reservation (probably illegal anyway. Just a litle aside to this one, in Greece there are many small momentos of a lost family member placed on the side of the road, these consist of a cabinet in which the family maintain a homage to the lost without causing any thing like a danger to raod users.
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