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#1 Posted : 09 April 2009 09:44:00(UTC)
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Posted By Crim Hi, I am doing a CPP for a project where asbestos was present but has been removed by the correct means. Asbestos survey and report are present. The CDM-C wants me to mention the asbestos to confirm the above, is a simple 1 line statement enough? Thanks
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#2 Posted : 09 April 2009 11:00:00(UTC)
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Posted By Richard Altoft Personally I would mention that it had been removed, perhaps give a date when clearance pronounced complete. Ensure asbestos clearance cert is in H&S File for whatever project the asbestos work was part off. Obviously if there are limits or boundaries between cleared areas and not cleared then clearly define those. The absence of asbestos is valid H&S info. R
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#3 Posted : 09 April 2009 11:46:00(UTC)
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Posted By Paul Woodard I personally don't think a'non-hazard' is valid information for the H&S file. A H&S file should contain relevant, significant H&S information should anyone need it. They need to know what hazards are present - not what hazards are not present. Otherwise where do you stop, 'I can confirm there are no lead containing products. I can confirm that the various components of the structure can be dismantled so no single item exceeds 20kg' etc etc..
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#4 Posted : 09 April 2009 12:01:00(UTC)
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Posted By Richard Altoft I would agree with Paul with just the one exception and that is asbestos. Mentioning that it has been removed with any limits or exceptions to that removal could prevent someone else (such as a purchaser or future owner or demolisher etc) from worrying about it and spending money on a survey R
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#5 Posted : 09 April 2009 12:37:00(UTC)
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Posted By Lee Mac As it is the CPP, I would recommend that you refer to the Asbestos Survey & type which identified the Asbestos initially and reference the Asbestos Removal docs together with Air Clearance. In doing so you are ensuring that the Asb. Surveyor is identified as being responsible for identification, and the removal co. was resp. for ensuring the removal and finally by referencing the Air Clearance Cert you are conveying to anyone wishing to review your docs that you followed a SSoW. In my experience, there are some Surveyors out there are not meeting the mark (common to most professions) and situations have arose where Asbestos has been encountered after all that was identified (in the Type 3 Survey) was removed. However, if you wish to go for a one liner there is nothing to stop you, but IMO this would not demonstrate that all the necessary steps were followed. Lee
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#6 Posted : 09 April 2009 12:45:00(UTC)
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Posted By warderic You have the documents, just copy them in.
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#7 Posted : 09 April 2009 17:01:00(UTC)
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Posted By Ron Hunter The purpose of the CPP is to inform all parties at the Construction Phase. It will be useful then to record that this enabling work took place and also to include a reference copy of the final air clearance tests. This would preclude the same question having to be addressed every time a sub-contractor starts on the Project Over and above the enabling work, there may well be other limitations on the extent and existing knowledge of ACMS in the ARR (commonly based on Type 2 Surveys). If there are further difficult to reach areas, ducts or voids (e.g. running new cables) then some further caveat information may serve a very useful purpose.
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#8 Posted : 09 April 2009 18:32:00(UTC)
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Posted By Crim Thanks everyone. The CPP has been approved by the CDM-C, it contains a reference to asbestos clearance and the fresh air cert is in the Plan. Initial Asbestos report also with the Plan. 2 lines only have satisfied the CDM-C. Thanks again.
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#9 Posted : 10 April 2009 06:36:00(UTC)
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Posted By Dave Wilson I was just going to respond to this but what you did is great and the CDMC did the right thing as well. My response was why do we H&S people make things 'SO DIFFICULT' its easy. No asbestos is present, been removed by licensed contractor here are the Certificates of reoccupation and Hazardous Waste notes DONE!!!
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#10 Posted : 10 April 2009 11:32:00(UTC)
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Posted By Crim Dave, you ask why do we H&S people make things 'SO DIFFICULT'? I try to be very common sense about safety and do what is necessary but make things easy for the end user. This means I make it quite simple and because of that I get lots of good feedback, and more work. I think I get more work because people I work for can see the sense in what I do. (I'm self employed by the way). I do not make it difficult for my Clients. Regarding other people and making life difficult for us I think that could me because they are afraid of maybe missing something that they could be criticised for? I am quite happy for a CDM-C to ask for more info as it proves to me that they actually read my CPP. Once my CPP has been approved then I can say to myself that I have done a good job. I don't think all CDM-C's do read everything - possibly due to pressure of work ?
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#11 Posted : 10 April 2009 19:05:00(UTC)
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Posted By Lee Mac Crim There are plenty of comments similar to Dave's floating about this forum. Basically he assumed that difficulty was there- in my view whether it be a couple of lines or a couple of paragraphs that hit the nail on the head- it isn't that difficult- we are talking minutes here not days. Well done on resolving your problem though and that is the desired result. We are here to assist and share on this forum, so keep up the posting Crim. All The Best Mate, Lee
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#12 Posted : 11 April 2009 06:35:00(UTC)
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Posted By Dave Wilson Crim, Wasn't directed at anyone in particular just a general comment. We in H&S tend to quote law and make policies / procedures which are very long winded and have to explain why we are going to do things. This has come from the MD in the past saying things like 'where does it say I have to do that'? instead of "that's common sense and sounds reasonable, J*DI!" which is a breath of fresh air. We as a profession always seem to want to justify our actions.
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#13 Posted : 11 April 2009 15:20:00(UTC)
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Posted By Arran Linton - Smith In answer to your question the answer should be yes, however as asbestos still has a horrible habit of biting you when you least expect it to, I would still include a standard caveat for when anything suspicious turns up!
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#14 Posted : 14 April 2009 08:57:00(UTC)
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Posted By Phil Rose Crim I would say that a simple 'one liner' and perhaps a cross reference to any documents to support that would be sufficient Phil
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#15 Posted : 14 April 2009 10:44:00(UTC)
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Posted By al wood a one line comment should be sufficient but also make referance to the fact that all information i.e. survey, clean air certificate, asbestos removal contractor details are available upon request. i would also include the clean air certificate in the CPP for good measure.
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#16 Posted : 14 April 2009 11:58:00(UTC)
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Posted By Robert K Lewis My only caveat to all this broadly follows Arran- The information you have tells only of the identified asbestos and its removal. The results also say that there may be more asbestos present and thus your CPP must include notification procedures if any further sus[pect material is encountered. What certainly is useful from the survey is the exceptions to the areas surveyed. Bob
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