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#1 Posted : 14 April 2009 20:10:00(UTC)
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Posted By Paul Huber I need to evaluate the risk for a person suffering Bi-Polar disorder. I ammeeting her doctor this week and would welcome any guidance or examples of questions to ask, etc. Also if anyone has a plan for looking after someone with this condition, risk assessments, etc that they are willing to share.
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#2 Posted : 14 April 2009 20:18:00(UTC)
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Posted By FAH Hi Paul Apart from ensuring that you have a clear, signed mandate from the individual to do as you propose; will the person concerned be attending with you? From my understanding, the actions you identify are fraught with data protection & DDA pitfalls. I assume that you've taken solid advice [in writing] from a suitably competent person in those fields? Also, you don't identify the relationship of the individual with yourself. Is it one of employer/employee; or a different relationship? This is an important point as whilst the impact of mental health is extremely wide, if it's outside that of employment, the rules are different. Sorry for not actually answering the question posed, but I don't believe we can without additional information. Frank Hallett
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#3 Posted : 14 April 2009 21:03:00(UTC)
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Posted By Kieran J Duignan Paul If the personal has been clinically diagnosed with the condition you describe, it's wisest to ask for access to the written assessment of the clinical psychologist and/or psychiatrist in order to determine how to assess the degrees of risk to the individual and others arising from the condition. Because mood changes in someone with this condition can be abrupt and fairly extreme unless they're pharmacologically controlled, it could be very difficult for you to proceed without the clinical assessment.
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#4 Posted : 15 April 2009 08:44:00(UTC)
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Posted By Neil R I'm sorry but you do not need to risk assess somebody who has bi-polar disorder!! Bi-polar disorder is a form of depression, which causes mixed emotions and swings between happy emotions an deep sadness, it is easily controlled with tablets. What exactly are you risk assessing? whether the person might suddenly feel quite sad and jump off a bridge? the risk of uncontrolled bi-polar is unusual behaviour how are you going to predict the outcome??? It is not our job to risk assess diabetes, bi-polar disorder, flu or anything like that, occupational health should be dealing with that. If i suffered from a condition and you tried to risk assess me i would tell you exactly where to go. Seen a few posts with regards to medical conditions, this isn't our job, stick to health and safety legislation.
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#5 Posted : 15 April 2009 09:19:00(UTC)
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Posted By Kieran J Duignan Paul Questions to ask her doctor, to assist your assessment of occupational risks: 1. Please may I have access to your records on this problem in professional confidence or let me have a summary report? 2. Have you referred her for psychological or psychiatric help? 3. What behavioural problems at work if any can you foresee with this patient? 4. Is she on any medication that may affect her use of machinery at work, including driving vehicles? Questions to consider asking the employee: 5. What kinds of hazards at work are you aware of ? 6. Does your medical condition affect your behaviour in relation to any of these hazards? 7. Are there any particular times of the day (or night, if she does night work) when you feel particularly affected? 8. Does working alone cause any particultr problems for you? 9. Does working with customerss pose any special risks for you (or them)? 10. Have you discussed with your line manager/supervisor how your condition may pose risks to your safety/health or safety/health of others at work? 11. Will you complete a brief feedback questionnaire for us once a month? 12. If you feel you need my help about managing risks at work, will you phone or email me, please? As Frank H. indicates, there can be more than meets the eye with an employee with a psychological disorder. The ergonomist, Duncan Abbott, has a useful relevant guide to assessing risks of people with disabilities. It's available to purchase at his website, wwww.enricosmog.co.uk
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#6 Posted : 15 April 2009 09:49:00(UTC)
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Posted By clairel As usual a lot of people giving advice on something they seem to know nothing about. Having had some dealings with MIND I know a little. People with bi-polar are way beyond the scope of a GP, they will be under the care of the hospital (psychiatrist) with a formal care plan to control medication, treatment etc. Bi-polar affects different people differently, there are in fact different types of bi-polar. The medication IS NOT a cure all and again has diffent impact on different people. I stroingly suggest that you just wait and talk the 'doctor' and if you want more info about the condition see the attached link. http://www.mind.org.uk/I...ing+manic+depression.htm
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#7 Posted : 15 April 2009 09:58:00(UTC)
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Posted By Kieran J Duignan Claire What information have you got about myself or the others who have offered opinions you choose to criticise? As a chartered psychologist and qualified counsellor, as well as a CMIOSH, I have carefully recorded opinions based on relevant research. From my knowledge of Frank Hallett, he has done likewise Evidently, you would benefit by looking to controlling your own behaviour before sounding off 'As usual a lot of people giving advice on something they seem to know nothing about'.
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#8 Posted : 15 April 2009 11:03:00(UTC)
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Posted By clairel Both Neil and Kieran gave inaccurate advice.
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#9 Posted : 15 April 2009 11:09:00(UTC)
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Posted By safetyamateur For me, Neil R's bang on with his advice. If the OH people point up an H&S issue then existing risk assessments get reviewed
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#10 Posted : 15 April 2009 11:09:00(UTC)
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Posted By clairel I'll clarify that. Someone with bi-polar would be seeing a psychiatrist otherwise they would not have confirmed dignosis. It is not necesaarul controlled by medication. The very nature of the illness means that the person may not be aware of the changes as they are happening. There necessarily any set patterns of behaviour. Reaction and control by and to the medication is not constant not even for the same individual. You are all trying to put a standard on something that is so unique to each person and so changeable to each person. Being CMIOSH is irrelvant. So am I but I wouldn't dream of advising on this. Not even a psychiatrist should be giving advice about something so variable on a forum. I stand by my opinion that directing to advice on bi-polar for greater awareness of the illness and waiting to speak to the professional involved in the case is the only responsible answer.
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#11 Posted : 15 April 2009 11:13:00(UTC)
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Posted By Neil R Er... excuse me claire, how exactly did i give inaccurate advice?. Nowhere in H&S legislation does it state that risk assessments need be carried out for medical conditions, it is the job of occupational health and HR to deal with this. I have first hand experience of many people suffering with bi-polar disorder, most of these people work as normal like everybody else, with no problems. My advice was to stay out of it, it is not our job to deal with medical conditions like bi-polar, it is our job to ensure that workplace hazards do not affect the person in question whilst at work, and thats what we should do. Sound advice if you ask me.
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#12 Posted : 15 April 2009 11:28:00(UTC)
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Posted By Kieran J Duignan Clarie For me - and on the basis of available evidence, for everyone else except you - the purpose of offering opinions on this forum is to reply to a simple request for guidance on assessing an occupational risk. Your opinion that I gave iiaccurate advice is reqrettably incompetent as well as ill-advised, as it fails to represent an intelligent grasp of either the question asked or what I've written. Having had the benefit of numerous professional supervisors (both psychologists and medical experts as well as ergonomsits and safety professionals), I'm familiar enourhg with he protocol for medical referrals to answer Paul's question as he asked it. No need to indulge in petty professioanl carping which does little for Paul or indeed for anything but your silly, touchy pride. Like Neil, I regret it is necessary to challenge both the competence and validity of your opinions
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#13 Posted : 15 April 2009 12:46:00(UTC)
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Posted By clairel Ok, I apologise if people have taken offence (I assume that is why so many posts were removed) - can we at least allow Paul this link? http://www.mind.org.uk/I...ing+manic+depression.htm
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#14 Posted : 15 April 2009 12:53:00(UTC)
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Posted By safetyamateur No idea why my post was pulled. No offence taken, simply agreed with Neil R's advice.
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#15 Posted : 15 April 2009 13:03:00(UTC)
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Posted By Lilian McCartney Hi Paul, we have an employee who has bipolar, we provide support for people int their own homes (most of whom are vulnerable adults). Our employees 'condition' is relatively well controlled however there may be periods when the meds don't work as well ro when the GP decides to alter meds etc. We do personal Risk Assessments - Extra Duty of care for all employees who may require one. Basically it is to state in writing what we expect of the employee and what we can do for them when they have a 'blip'. The risk assessment mentions lone working, sleepovers etc and also contains action the employee should do if they feel something is happening i.e. they must speak to their Line manager immediately. I can't really send their risk assessment as its personal but I can sen form is you wish. I used our Occ Health professional for info when preparing risk assessment as they had been fully advised of duties of employee and had previously spoken to the employee.
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#16 Posted : 15 April 2009 13:09:00(UTC)
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Posted By Bob Youel Occupational assessments I advise that you obtain BOTH an occupational and a clinical appraisal from suitably competent people as its only then you will have a full picture in place; as on occasion I have found that clinical assessments are not good enough on their own when in the working environment
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#17 Posted : 15 April 2009 13:39:00(UTC)
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Posted By IOSH Moderator Just to clarify the situation, posts were hidden because they appeared (to the mods at least) to be of an antagonistic nature and/or on the wrong forum. We occasionally need to take action without consulting posters directly in order to prevent further escalation of a situation or deviation from a thread subject. This was one of those times and as we came late to the thread, several posts needed to be hidden. Feel free to re-post any relevant links as clairel has already done. Regards Jonathan
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#18 Posted : 16 April 2009 08:39:00(UTC)
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Posted By Robert K Lewis Paul, and any others who may have relevant or similar issues: Please contact me offline and we can discuss this further - The Council Working Party on Diversity has just commenced its work and this is within its remit. I am Chairing the WP and we would welcome all such information, suitably anonymised or with permissions for release of information. Please feel free to use my e-mail link Bob
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