Posted By SOD I hear you!! And yes I agree. I don't mind giving advice, or pointing people in the right direction, but having been asked for templates I have engineered to fit my auditing tasks, I refuse. One size does not fit all, and i think that is what we are in danger of! SO

Posted By craig hunter Claire I have mixed views on this one. I believe that if we are sharing templates etc, then we need to be absolutely sure who they are going to. It is important to developed a good core of H & S colleagues within your industry sector who will face similar areas of concern. After all, sharing best practice is a fundamental part of H & S and I believe that it is essential. That said i have seen risk assessments that were provided to one manager becoming copied and pasted all across the UK! Some people didn't even change the review date or the original writers name. Apply caution is my advice to sharing - those who are too lazy to develop there own should be ashamed of themselves!!

Posted By Juan Carlos Arias I normally create my own templates and documents I need for my work. I have never asked for a template through this forum. However, I must say that I do not mind sharing what I have. When I'm working on something, I always find it useful to get ideas from other colleague's work. Like it has been said here before, once you get to know a person a bit better and you are sure that they are not just blood suckers, then you don't mind sharing with them.

Posted By Francis E S Hone Claire I agree with Gary C40 I often ask for P-Points, templates Etc. if I get what I ask for I make sure that it fits in my work environment before using it. I often respond to requests by sharing what I have received or implemented myself. I always hope that they will be correctly implemented into the receivers business before it is used and that I,m not helping someone run a consultancy & using others(US) to get the work done. But sharing with fellow members / safety bods not a problem for me. Frank

Posted By Haggis JM ...how about passing 'templates' on as .pdf files, then they cannot simply be used with the names changed?

Posted By A Campbell I don't think there is anything wrong in 'networking' in order to gain the best result for your company. If people wish to profit from it then that's a different matter and something I wouldn't agree upon.

Posted By Philip McAleenan Here’s a point for people to consider when they are deciding whether to provide templates to someone who may (or may not) be a consultant. The notion that you shouldn’t do it in case they profit from it fails to consider that employed safety persons may themselves be requesting free materials in order to facilitate their employer’s profitability. In those circumstances, what’s the difference? Too often consultants, (and lawyers, journalists, HSE, insurers etc) are attacked blanket fashion on this forum without any consideration that these professions are full of people who are highly skilled, professional and working to stringent codes of ethics and conduct. As in the safety profession you will get charlatans from time to time, but that doesn’t justify prejudice. In the absence of evidence to the contrary, assume that request for materials are honourable and that the materials supplied will be used honourably. It takes some of the stress out of life; after all we have more to worry about that how somebody makes a buck or two, Regards, Philip

Posted By Wil "If so should we universally agree to boycott such posts?" I don't think this proposal is remotely possible. I'm afraid you will have to accept that if people don't want to, then they won't. If they do want to, they will!

Posted By Raymond Rapp I think Philip has made some very valid points. I once forwarded some documents to a person through this forum and noticed his email address contained 'safety' and I queried his reason for wanting the information. The response was that he was a consultant in fire safety. The gentleman also sent me some brilliant fire safety documents and templates in return. It is all too easy to jump to conclusions. Ideally, people should ask for advice and someone may be prepared to send a document as well. However, if you do not wish to help then don't. Hands up all those that have never plagiarised a document... Ray

Posted By A Campbell If people are that concerned with sharing such documents they have some choices... Do not share them! As that animal on TV says... Simples! As an afterthought... I thought that the principle of the internet was to share knowledge accross the globe??

Posted By NJS I see no issue with sharing, any information (providing it's not confidential) as many other users point out, if you don't want to share don't! I feel it is a good thing sharing ones expertise with others who may not be so experienced or knowledgeable. Don't forget we were all new to health and safety at one time and i know I for one, would have appreciated the assistance of others.

Posted By Raymond Rapp David, why consultants? Other people often work in areas they may not be overly familiar with. It's called learning. Claire, be sensible for a moment. We all use, copy, paste from documents and the Internet from time to time. Let's not adopt a holier than thou attitude. Ray

Posted By NJS Clairel Sorry but I really cant see the difference with copying and pasting others works and using others works. Bad example I think.

Posted By clairel okay the difference is: One person has recently asked for 'a workplace inspection template for care homes' - for that I would not give them my template. I would instead reference them to guidance so they can get the information to do it themselves (as the one respondent did). Another person recently has asked for us to 'recommend any suitable literaure etc on the control/management of contractors' - I quite happliy referenced a piece of literature. Does no one else see the difference? Whatever. I will continue to do my bit to weed out the incompetent and lazy. You lot can do what you want to too.

Posted By A Campbell This is becoming pedantic!!! If you have a beef about people copy & pasting because you feel they are being too lazy to complete their own work..... then feel free not to pass out such information. It just doesn't do any justice to elaborate your reasons for or against perhaps to dissuade others from doing it?... what you send out to people is your decision!

Posted By Safe System "Whatever. I will continue to do my bit to weed out the incompetent and lazy. You lot can do what you want to too." I think the attitude above stinks. I am guilt of not only asking for an example risk assessment but also of providing them to people. Health & safety is a thankless task and the only breath of fresh air we usually receive is by networking with fellow professionals. I am guilty and i am not ashamed to say that i have asked for an example risk assessment or 2... BUT these are not for the information inside, more for a suitable layout that i feel could benefit those on site. If, by sharing and exchanging information between ourselves as professionals we see some information on someone else's document that we either failed to spot or didn't think off (yes, despite what some people think of themselves, we are imperfect and we do miss things) then great! we can add this to our document to make sites safer. C'mon people, constant "i want" or "i need this" or "have you got" is a tad annoying BUT the occasional ask for information is OK, surely! WE ARE ALL WORKING FOR THE GREATER GOOD -TO MAKE OUR SITES/FACTORIES/WHATEVER.. SAFER! If this can be aided by the interchange of Information then great. So Is it being lazy or is it the person is so busy and stressed out they merely need a helping hand? Maybe they want an extra pair of eyes to look at something as in the current climate those employed maybe be stretched by their employer and are not in a position to say no... I will continue you to help people with requests for information as long as they do not start taking the mick. As a thought, to restrict people who are just trying to get a freebie and are not fellow professionals how about requests for information should only be made in the IOSH members section - If you choose to go in to that section to help them great! This will not only stop the moaners of the group complaining about having threads hijacked but also provide a central point for info. Before people reply with an answer which will show true colours and TBH make them look unprofessional, take a second, re-read the post so you do not misquote, take a deep breath and then compose... :)

Posted By CW I may as well post this on here. Can anyone share with me a template for ISO18001? I have never seen one but would like to have a read through. I am not a consultant so I am not wanting it for a client, I am unemployed so it isn’t for an employer. A lot of the positions that I see advertised require knowledge/ understanding of this system. It would be a great help to me if I could look at one and be able to understand what is involved. Cheers Col

Posted By Haggis JM ...but if you only give out information on the members forum, aren't you depriving the very people who need help the most - the new entrants to the sector? The only template or document I've given out on here was a register of environmental legislation, with the proviso that it would need to be adapted to suit the recipient's organisation. I would not have been in a position to help this person if such requests were restricted to IOSH members since I am not, and never will be, a member. Can I ask why the attitude to consultants? I moved to environmental consultancy to widen my knowledge and allow me a greater breadth of experience than I would get working for a single employer. I fail to understand why this seems to incur such vitriol in the H & S field.

Posted By Safe System Thats a good point Haggis J.. not really thought about it fully but here are my honest thoughts.... Firstly, I do not and have never really found the IOSH forum welcoming to newbies (take the person who started this discussion for example!) - it can be extremely daunting for someone to be told by a thousand people they are wrong.... therefore i feel newbies maybe better suited to another unnamed forum - but that is personal chouce... Next, Those starting out need help and advice which will be freely available through the IOSH forums however, what the discussion (or so i have it) is the acquisition of physical documents... For a person new in the field- giving them a working document really isn't helping them... how else do they actually learn and develop a good system.. I'm no scrooge and if a new person posts a note on the forum stating they really need help.. then i will be first in line to try my best. However, what i am trying to do is wean out unscrupulous employers looking to rip off a document without actually knowing how to use it.. and thinking this is acceptable form of Health & Safety management... (taking jobs from employees or money from consultants) Assume the consultants thing is directed elsewhere as I've nothing against them - my fave H&S mentors are consultants!

Posted By Safe System Please please please do not take this the wrong way, cynicism is needed to a degree but i have had a look back through your posts and i see a fine line between being cynical and bitter. (over what i do not know) contradicting myself.. maybe... but sometimes it can be hard not to contradict yourself when someone makes a valid point and you allow yourself to be corrected on this. I have also looked back through your posts and have seen that you have provided lots of useful information AND you have a wealth of experience that can be drawn on but i do not think you do yourself (or others) any favours by trying to rally a mob to prevent people from helping in anyway they feel comfortable. I do hope that one day you share the reasons of your bitterness towards your chosen profession.. it may help others looking to join H&S avoid the same pitfalls. As mentioned it is a thankless job, everyone knows that - we all have our reasons for getting into it,...which will lead me to my next discussion point so i do not hijack yours.