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Posted By Seamus O Sullivan
Hi everyone.
Consider a large building, where members of the public may meet. There is an emergency exit. It has three steps leading to the outside. Would you expect to see it ramped for wheelchair users etc? (It is possible to ramp this)
Your views.
Seamus
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Posted By Safety officer
I'm no expert on DDA but I think it says you have to make reasonable adjustments, so I suppose its your view on what's reasonable.
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Posted By Richard Altoft
DDA is vital and it is right that anyone who is disabled is fully supported in an emergency BUT a ramp in an emergency could lead to people who are expecting steps, or in a crush or cant see their feet etc stumbling and falling which is how many injuries arise in crowd conditions.
Get an expert view from someone who has seen the actual steps.
R
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Posted By Seamus O Sullivan
Hi
I encountered this on a social night out. I suppose being nosey I looked out through the exit and saw the steps. I must admit I was surprised there were steps as it meant a person in a wheelchair could not get out.
There are efforts to get people into buildings but egress in an emergency seems to be overlooked.
Regards
Seamus
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Posted By DPK
Seamus
You say there appeared to be little regards to getting people out, but have you seen the FRA for the building. There maybe alternative arrangements such as a nominated member of staff to aid any person with mobility difficulties.
Were any other exit points on the level, as not all exits are required to have ramps, evac chairs may have been available for use, however it seems unlikely for three steps.
The easy way to establish if any thought has been given to disabled people is check the fire exit signage, as the exit sign should have a pictorial of a wheel chair to identify the appropriate exit.
I come across all types of work places that have given little or no regard to disabled people, and how long have we had the DDA?
DPK
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Posted By Seamus O Sullivan
Hi DPK
No I did not see the FRA for the building. I am sure if it exists it would be a well worded document full of plans and aspirations. However the reality seemed to be a person with a wheel chair would have difficulties leaving the building.
This would lead me on to the next query, announcing on emergency exits and assembly points. is it sufficient to announce the location of exits, but not to mention the exits suitable for persons with moblity problems. In reality with different exits being used, one could encounter traffic jams, some going one way, some going the other way. And some lost in the middle, again i am thinking of a power cut, smoke in the room and persons disorientied looking at emergency lights in the distance.
Is there an onus on a wheelchair user to point out to managment that they are a wheelchair user and need to point out they cant use the exit? Or that just is something they should accept?
There was one other emergency exit approx 150 meters away ( also with steps.) and of course the orignal entrance a long journey away
The standard signs were there, nothing indicated and thought to persons with disablities.
My own thinking on the matter is that if there was an emergency, and the power failed, a person would calmly wheel to the sign saying exit, only to discover this exit was an exit for everyone except the wheelchair user, and they go back to the way s/he entered the building, great idea of course assuming the place is not filled with smoke, and the original entrance was not on fire etc.
I accept i am only a techiosh, so am probably missing something, but I would love to get other views on the matter.
Regards
Seamus
PS I am just considerng wheel chair users etc, not over complicating the matter with visual impairement etc.
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Posted By Messy Shaw
The law is quite clear that the responsible person must make provision for all 'relevant' persons - which includes anyone with disabilities.
How they go about it will obviously vary dependent on use & design of the building. A theatre or nightclub with the likelihood of a simultaneous mass evacuation will require more provision than a small pub with 50 persons.
I recently did a FRA on a Restaurant where the owner was extremely concerned by DDA remarks from a council licensing official about a single 5" step from an exit to the rear. The restaurateur had since applied to construct a ramp but the council said no (quite rightly) as it exited directly onto the public pavement.
It was one low step - in a small restaurant with 30 covers. The likelihood of this step ever being used by a mobility impaired person in a fire situation is very low - and one small step will not be a problem for most wheelchair users. The 'issue' will now be covered by staff training.
So I ask, would the three steps in the example given be a problem in reality? Is it likely that any wheelchair user would be required to use this exit alone, with no other persons around to assist with the three steps? Is it likely that a mass evacuation (of scores of people) will occur here? Are any planning issues likely which would prevent a ramp?
I don't know the answers in this case, but these are the sort of questions that need to be addressed rather than rushing to ramps or other unworkable examples.
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Posted By Peter F
Carry out a PEEP Personal Emergency Evacuation Plan for any person suffering a disability. This should determine if the evacuation points are adequate.
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