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Posted By Robert_N
Two employees have been moved work area as they are concerned that the smell from the new shoes that are being sorted is aggravating their asthma.
The shoes are boxed and being sorted in go out to store the amount is not massive but there is a new type smell close to the same you would find in a shoe shop.
I would like your views on this thread as I will soon be faced with everyone having asthma and stating the same as the work area isn’t well liked by the work force.
Many thanks
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Posted By bereznikov
Hi Robert,
Aside from removing the reasons why the area is not well liked (first priority)...might be worth getting them to prove they have asthma is you suspect otherwise. I say this because i have had similar experiences, in which one employee had an issue (genuine) which was dealt with, and then after seeing this a few other 'opportunists' tried to do the same.
bereznikov
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Posted By MT
I reckon I'm an expert on new shoes (I have a LOT of shoes) and also asthma as I've had it since birth. However, I'm not an expert on this particular situation!
What I would reckon is that the smell is from something which is being emitted from one of the materials used in the shoes, and that substance is what is aggravating their asthma. Many things trigger asthma attacks - for me it can be as simple as going from a hot environment to a cold one, or vice versa, and also some E numbers in orange squash provoke a reaction. You cannot discount their symptoms as you know they have an existing conditions, and they have told you that something at work is aggravating it.
I'd suggest you contact the manufacturers of the shoes and find out what substances and materials have been used in their manufacture and check if any of those are respiratory sensitisers, as a starting point.
I'm sure others will be able to suggest other actions to take too.
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Posted By Francis E S Hone
How bad is the Smell Is the area well ventilated or is it enclosed lots of things to look at before moving people. Asthma is a serious issue for some people.
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Posted By LMR
I have asthma as well as bronchiectasised lungs and a sensitised respiratory system.
I to have problem when opening 'new' items from magazines to shoes which have been packaged and are being opened for the first time.
It is not an allergic reaction it is a sensitised reaction to the chemicals and solvents used in the manufacturing process; ie glues used to fix soles to shoes, inks, varnish, paints etc.
It is not possible (according to my lung consultants) to have an allergy to sensitisers it is a different reaction.
Both allergy and sensitivity can trigger an asthma attack which in my case result in my needing immediate treatment and epi-pen and hospitalisation; as my reactions have progressed to an anaphylactic level due to continued exposure to low level sensitisers over many years in the workplace and shopping centres and the home.
I would get someone to do an air quality check as it may be that the sensitisers need to be dispersed (simple as blown air) before close up sorting.
It sounds trite but I am one of the lucky ones as i know i react and now remove myself from situations - this trigger sensitisation can happen to anyone at any time.... and it is life changing!
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Posted By clairel
I'm no scientist but I'm sure a 'smell' can't trigger asthma. Wouldn't it be the chemicals generating the smell? Pedantic maybe but...
Anyway, I'm sure in the dim recesses of my brain I remember something about the 'smell' of the inside of new cars being linked to things like headaches etc. Soemthing to do with the chemicals used. Is this similar?
...personally I found my headche linked to the wad of cash I'd just handed over for the new car and knowing that most of it had just washed down the drain the instantf I drove off the forecourt :-)
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Posted By Stuff4blokes
Once sensitised to a particular substance, my understanding is that even a small exposure can trigger a strong reaction. Thus any VOCs emitted from the shoes, polish, dye, ink, varnish, glue etc that accumulate in the packaging may be causing this problem. Thus there are two choices: remove the substance from the people or remove the people from the substance.
If this is a genuine sensitisation reaction then the only truly effective way of removing the substance is to substitute it for another. Of course, the offending substance(s) needs first to be identified and thereafter dealt with. Probably very difficult and may not be reasonably practicable.
If it's simply that the complains stem from a dislike of the job then that is slightly likely to be easier to fix.
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Posted By Chris Packham
I am intrigued by the statement that a reaction is not an allergic reaction but due to sensitisation. I know that there are some slight differences between asthma and skin reactions, but the immune system is the same. Sensitisation is the pre-condition for an allergic reaction. It is when the immune system starts to recognise a particular molecule as 'foreign' and develops antibodies (Ig molecules) to identify it and initiate a response. This is a development of the normal process that helps protect us against infection. If the sensitisation is sufficiently pronounced then on any subsequent contact between the immune system and the substance there will be an allergic reaction. However, it is possible to be sensitised but not allergic.
The confusion may arise because we have to deal with two different types of immune response, types I and IV. Type I (urticaria in the skin) is the one that can produce the excessive reaction leading to the very high release of histamine and subsequent anaphylaxis. It involves mast cells and Immunoglobulin E and the release of inflammatory mediators, notably histamine.
Once sensitised then the more frequent the exposure generally the lower the level of exposure needed to initiate a response. Sensitisation is long term, often for life although if exposure to the sensitiser is eliminated the level of exposure needed for a reaction can change making the person less likely to respond.
The type IV reaction (in the skin known as allergic contact dermatitis) involves different cells and substances and does not lead to the anaphylactic reaction that can occur with the type I response.
An irritant reaction is different and does not involve the immune system in the same way. However, it can often be combined with an allergic reaction. Indeed, there is now evidence that some, possibly sub-clinical, irritancy is needed to trigger an allergic reaction as epithelial cells produce chemicals needed for the allergic reaction. Furthermore, since the symptoms are often almost indistinguishable it can be extremely difficult to determine if a reaction is allergic, irritant or a combination (and what role each type of reaction plays). Furthermore, other factors, such as stress, psychological problems, etc. can also play an important role.
Chris
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Posted By LMR
Chris
In respiratory conditions in relation to VOC it is the sensitivity that causes the reactions and not an allergy. The inner lining of the lungs react to the sensitiser and start to close down to protect themselves.
It is difficult for the observer to know the difference but if you have known sensitised reactions to VOC etc then valueable time can be wasted being treated with anti-histamine to cease an allergic reaction when it is a sensitivity that is causing the primary problem.
The best treatments being fresh or cleaned oxygen enriched air; then the remaining symptoms can be addressed which are allergy based.
At best my reactions are exciting at worst scary as my lungs close down on exposure to solvents and solvent based chemicals.
I hope that this explains the difference; it is the same as reactions to the skin but unseen and a bit more life threatening if the initial treatment is wrong.
One annoying little side effect of the combined is that I have allergic ashtma as well and I react to the propellant gases used in the inhaler as it is a sensitiser trigger to my reactions. I have to have gas free inhalers, puffers etc.
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Posted By John Richards
Whatever happened to "adequate ventilation" ?
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Posted By Chris Packham
I think it is the terminology that causes confusion. Speaking with immunologists and toxicologists, yes, there is sensitivity and sensitisation. They consider a person who reacts to a chemical with either asthma or dermatitis as having a sensitivity but not necessarily sensitisation. This was something that was discussed in some detail by a toxicologist during a course at a UK university recently.
His view was that sensitivity can result in what he would term an irritant reaction. Sensitisation is the precursor to an allergic reaction. Sensitivity can be caused by a whole raft of different conditions. In skin, cold weather can reduce the skin's barrier properties, increasing sensiticity so that someone develops an irritant contact dermatitis from contact with a chemical that would cause no problem in a more temperature environment. Sensitivity in this case would be temporary. Atopics also tend to have increased sensitivity, but may not develop allergy. In this case the sensitivity is permanent.
Having said all this, I agree with you that it is life changing and complex. I have great sympathy for your condition.
As I said, it is complex and often difficult for us to be certain what we are dealing with. Not so long ago we were involved in a dermatitis case where the person had been diagnosed as sensitised to natural rubber latex proteins. However, she is not allergic to the proteins. If she is exposed to latex, but does not know it, then there is no reaction. If she is exposed to plastic and thinks it is latex, then she develops the reaction. According to one of the European experts in this field (Prof. Gieler, Giessen University) it is called "undifferentiated idiopathic somatoform anaphylaxis" (Try saying that in the bar after a couple of drinks!), a purely psychosomatic reaction. But outwardly it is almost impossible to see any difference compared with a normal type I response. Of course, adrenaline injection does not help her, as this deals with an antigen/antibody response, which, in her case, isn't there.
Isn't life complex!
Chris
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