Posted By RHOES Hi, Can anyone tell me if the provision of fire extinguishers is mandatory or can the decision as to provide them be based on risk assessment? Regards Rich

Posted By safetyman2204 RHOES The Fire Service Guide "Managing Fire Safety and Fire Risk Assessment" simplifies the The Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005, and I believe answers your question which I quote "The responsible person must provide general fire precautions, Articles 4 and 11 refer. Part of those precautions must be the provision of a means of fighting fire. The scale and specification of fire fighting equipment will be determined by the Fire Risk Assessment (FRA) which should take into account the dimensions and use of the premises, including the number of persons, type of equipment and nature of substances present, Articles 9,10,11 and 13 refer. In most cases fire fighting equipment should take the form of portable fire extinguishers that conform to British or European standards. Equipment, devices and facilities within premises must be suitably maintained in good repair and working order, Article 17 refers" Fire Safety Guides can be down loaded in PDF format FOC from the following web link: www.communities.gov.uk Hope this has been of some help SM2204

Posted By Lisa_ it depends if having FFE creates a bigger risk. After consultation with our fire risk assessor are not providing extinguishers in blocks of flats as they can be used as weapons. Local station are more than happy that they are not going to have missiles hurled at them when they attend. It all comes back to what your RA finds.

Posted By RHOES Thanks for your comments. The reason I am asking is that a friend of mine is holding a contemporary dance performance in a small (7m x 6m approx)disused, single storey shop, independent from any other buildings. The maximum number of people that will be in the shop at any one time while a performance is taking place will be 20, with a performance lasting around 30 mins. There are two routes of escape from the shop and the maximum travel distance to any exit will be 7m. Given that the premises will be occupied for such a short period time; the only potential ignition sources will be electrical equipment which will all be checked for suitability and testing; in the event of a fire all occupants will be able to evacuate rapidly; and no one will be trained to used fire extinguishers anyway; it seems unecessary to purchase fire extinguishers under these circumstances. Any further comments appreciated.

Posted By brian handman with the exception of single domestic dwellings it is up to the responsible person e.g the manager to risk assess and provide fire safety equipment . there should be at least 1 extinguisher per floor or 1 for every 200 square metres of floor space and should be cited on exit routes or close to the hazards they protect you from . nowadays they are used more for assissting escape from fire rather than fighting fire hope this helps

Posted By Vic Little RHOES The only exemption I have come across not to provide a fire extinguisher, is where the requirement has been defined within the FRA when using and providing fire equipment would be in the detriment of the staff. I have come across this rule in explosive areas where immediate evacutaion is required and where automatic drenchers operate to allow safe evacution.

Posted By Rod D We have residential apartments in London and the apartments are occupied mostly by foreign nationals. There were two 9 litre water fire extinguishers in the main common parts corridor. On consulting with a Fire Consultant and our insurers I have had these removed as these would only encourage people to go back into an area where there is a fire. In addition this is not their place of work this is their home and they will, more than likely have personal belongings in their apartment that are irreplaceable, which will most definitely make them want to go back in to retrieve these. Also can they read English? Do they know how to use an extinguisher? What if these extinguishers were to be used on let’s say a “Chip Pan” fire in their Apartment, this could lead to an extremely dangerous scenario. There is Smoke Detection in the common parts along with Call Points and Fire Doors and Protected Staircases. I was in Building last week, which has just come back to us to be managed in house and whilst having a familiarisation visit I noticed that in the one protected staircases there were three fire extinguishers on each landing two 6 litre water and 1 2KG CO2 over 9 levels. 27 Fire Extinguishers in one protected staircase, my question was why? (There were two on each landing level on the other 2 staircases over 9 levels that is 36 Fire Extinguishers) 63 Fire Extinguishers in an hour fire rated areas of Comparative Safety, why? Could this have been an over zealous fire consultant? Again I will be looking to remove these as I do want personnel going back into a building where there may be a fire and placing themselves at unnecessary risk. Aye Rod D

Posted By clairel Personally I would still maintain that the fire RA is to determine the number and type of fire extinguishers required but that the provision of fire extinguishers (or equivalent) is alsways required because it is virtually impossible to remove the risk of fire. I appreciate what was said about areas where they could be used as weapons. I too have clients where due to the nature of the service users fire extinguishers are abused but where possible they are still provided, even if not in communal areas they can be put in the offices etc.

Posted By Steve Cartwright 9L Water extinguisher costs approx £30. Size of room 7m x 6m you will only need one. Yes you'll will have to do a fire risk assessment. I take it this person will have insurance for the building. I don't think insurance company would be very happy if small fire broke out whilst you were in building and you all walked out and stood on the other side of road and watched it burn to the ground, or you said I could not use the extinguisher because the instructions were in english only. Whatever happened to sensible risk management. You won't be expected to put in a fully automated early warning fire detection system or a sprinkler system, your talking about an extinguisher that will probably cost no more than £30. Come on, don't be afraid to manage the risk.