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Posted By Lee Daniels
It appears that from October 2009 there will be an HSE recognised Emergency First Aid at Work 1-day course. The usual First at Work course will be available as previously and the Appointed Person role will still exist as defined by the HSE (e.g. not qualified to perform first aid but to take charge of the situation, call ambulance, maintain stocks of first aid equipment etc).
What I have been unable to find is any new guidance on the ratios of First Aiders, Emergency First Aiders or Appointed Person to numbers of people on site and risk (High, Medium or Low) as previously shown in INDG 214.
Without any guidance it is very difficult to decide when an Emergency First Aider is acceptable instead of a 'Full' First Aider. Has anyone else seen any new guidance or does someone have 'insider' information on what the guidance will be?
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Posted By Mike DF
As I understand it the training has been slimmed down to a three day course with an annual refresher to be a full first aider. The ratios in INDG214 will still apply
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Posted By Brian S
Hi Lee.
I am in the same boat as you, and would also like to know the new changes.
Sometimes the HSE can be murder to get info from!
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Posted By Jay Joshi
There has been streamlining of training requiremnents, impact is primarily on training providers--no changes to the first aid at work regulations!
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Posted By Adrian.Durand
Hi All,
As a first aider for my company, I understand the new regs to be as follows:
1) The current requirements for number of First Aiders or Appointed Persons has not changed.
2) The FAW course will be 3 days instead of the current, still with a 2 day Requalification every 3 years.
The Appointed Persons course is becoming the Emergency First Aid at Work (EFAW) and is still the two day course and 1 day requalification.
3) The regs will be recommending that a 1 day (approx 6 hour) refresher is carried out yearly to ensure that skills do not degrade over time - I can't remeber if this is mandatory or optional.
Hope this helps.
Regards
Adrian
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Posted By Lee Daniels
Thank you to everyone for responding. Bill's link to the draft ACOP was very useful.
If the final version of the new ACOP is the same as the draft then it only defines two levels of risk (Low and Higher) and as for whether an Emergency First Aider is acceptable instead of a Full First Aider - this appears to come down to the types of hazard present in a workplace and the types of injury which might occur.
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Posted By Phil Rose
Lee
Appointed persons can give first aid as long as they have been trained to do so! Para 60 of L74 makes that clear. Most Appointed Person courses also cover basic first aid training.
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Posted By D H
Phil - be careful with your statements. Appointed persons do get training but that does not class them as first aiders!
However - anyone not trained can provide first aid if they want, and think they can.
Most of it is common sense - but the likes of CPR is where the training comes in.
I am aware of someone that used
the "Heinrich" manoeuvre to save a person - and during the operation they cracked the affected persons rib - and they were sued for the damage!
Appointed persons have their limits - ensure they follow their level of training.
Dave
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Posted By Phil Rose
Dave
I was careful with my statement!! I NEVER said that being an Appointed Person made them a first aider, I said that they can give first aid - which they can. See para 60 of L74.
Out of interest what wasn't 'careful' about my statement? I was merely reiterating what the HSE already print in black and white!
Phil
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Posted By Mark Eastbourne
Should have used the heimlich manoeuvre instead.
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Posted By Brian S
Nice one Mark - really cheered me up (for a Monday).
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Posted By A Campbell
D H... Interesting case.
Have you information with regards to it as I don't know of any successful cases where a member of the public was found guilty of negligence in attempting to save a life?
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Posted By Derek J Golding
The potential is always there for a negligence charge if someone attempts something beyond their training. The idea behind first aid training is to achieve standards that you have been trained to apply and if you treat casualties within those boundaries then the law will take this into account - even though there is no "good samaritan" rule in UK - but it is likely the test will be applied by the law as if a "GS" rule existed.
First Aid is a confidence thing - if you've done the training don't be afraid to apply it but stay within your limits. As an ex-paramedic I would not consider using some of the techniques I was taught back then because my training is no longer current but I would do what I am trained to do as a current First Aider in the confidence that I have a degree of protection.
Whatever you do don't attempt open heart surgery on the stength of a first aid course.
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Posted By safetyamateur
At last, the discussion focusses on 'competence' and not just 'training'.
Any fool can get a certificate.
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Posted By A Campbell
The danger is... the more pressure you place on unpaid volunteers to gain first aid knowledge... the likelihood that people will shy away from becoming a first aider.
In the workplace this could cause many headaches unless employers will be in the position to enforce mandatory first aid upon their workforce?
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Posted By Phil Rose
What does mandatory first aid mean?
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Posted By Ron Hunter
Employers are free to make Fist Aid Certification a condition of employment - in that respect it can be mandatory.
A.Campbell - most employers choose to give some financial reward to encourage volunteers in the workplace, and most First Aiders I know would agree that a 3 year period between refresher seriously reduces their competency should an emergency actually arise.
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Posted By Phil Rose
Phew, I am happy that being a first aider can be in the Job Description and therefore a contractual obligation. I thought it might mean that it was compulsory to be given first aid! You Will have a plaster on that paper cut whether you like it or not :-)
Interestingly enough, we stopped paying first aider allowance and I still have a waiting list of people wishing to be a first aider.
Agree, 3 years too long, we do a annual update.
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Posted By Clive James
We have been informed that the new guidance relating to first aid risk assessment will be issued on 1 October 2009. What has been confirmed so far is:
4 day first aid at work will become a 3 day course
The requalification course remains unchanged at 2 days and is still required to be taken every three years
People undertake and complete their training before 1 October will obviously still be recognised as the qualification remains unchanged
A new one day course (Emergency First Aid in the Workplace- EFAW) will be introduced, this is a separate qualification and NOT a replacement for the appointed persons course
The appointed person role remains unchanged, in that they do not have to have any first aid training, but can perform first aid, if required to do so, up to the level of any first aid training they have received
The HSE have recognised that skills fade is an issue for some time now and currently recommend a refresher every year in-between courses. As of 1 October this will become a 'strong recommendation' and will be a 3 hour (half day) course.
The HSE have advised that although the new courses/regulations come in to effect in October, employers must ensure that they still meet their obligations under the current regulations.
Clive James
Training Development Manager
St John Ambulance
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