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Posted By Fornhelper
Hi all
My apologies - I have already posted this under another heading (bedside rails) but type of equipment not really relevant to the question being asked so thought I'd change subject heading.
Have recently carried out full day training with staff regarding bedside rails (based on HSE / BUPA presentation and other HSE guidance). Included demonstrations, provided hands on training, provided manufacturers instructions, info sheets on 'critical' entrapment sizes, tested their understanding (all passed!!), undertaking assessments etc etc.
In my view staff who have now been through our training can now be classed as 'competent persons' to fit equipment, carry out regular checks and inspections of bedside rails and generally ensure that they are safe to use.
We now have an issue with some staff refusing to accept that they are competent despite the training provided to them. They state they are happy to carry out checks etc but don't wished to be deemed competent and won't sign off the monthly checksheets we have arranged!!!
Has anyone else been in a similar situation and if so, how did you deal with it and how can you convince someone they are competent?
FH
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Posted By safetyamateur
It's the old chestnut about someone not necessarily being competent because they've been on a training course.
I won't comment on the bedrails issue but any training I do for, say, risk assessment simply means they've had the training. It's for their manager to decide if they're competent to actually do the work.
I notice from the HSE's list of shame they're hot on bedrails at the mo'. Is this where the resistance comes from? Fear of making a mistake which lands the organisation in lumber?
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Posted By Steve M Granger
I think the definition of competence is stll valid;
Trained - especially if there is a recognised programme or unit
Experienced - time or repeated activity
Skilled - honed in the particular activity
Appointed - by the employer
The word 'Choice' was never there so it's a case of 'your it' , like it or lump it, imho.
Steve
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Posted By Raymond Rapp
I will not comment on bedside rails but agree with the previous poster. Competence is generally a combination of training, knowledge and experience and an overly used expression.
Just because someone has had training does this make them competent? Not necessarily. I would try to avoid the use of the word competent in your circumstances and perhaps replace with trained. Semantics maybe - but it might get you out of a spot.
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Posted By A Campbell
Forn,
You have provided the information, instruction & training?
Now it's time to place the buck into manager's hands regarding what they will or will not do.
Mincing words should not be a barrier!
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Posted By Phil Rose
Personally, I would try to get to the bottom of the reason why they think that they aren't i.e. what is their concern?
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Posted By Pete48
Clearly a mismatch between your process and the culture of the organisation. Most likely a fear of the consequence of failure that would motivate such a response.
Why do they need to be deemed "competent"? Does this word have particular reference in your company (NHS or care for example)?
Are they doing anything other than operator or user inspections? Do they think that is what they are doing or do they now think they have additional duties. I have fallen into that trap before now when "training" people to be "competent".
You have ensured that employees have been informed, instructed and trained. Now add adequate supervision and where is the worry for any party? If it is a stumbling block I would draw back from using the word competent and ask them to be specific about why they do not want to do the checks. Need more info? Don't feel confident? Didnt really understand the first time? Think it is beyond their job description?
Just some possibilities. They might just be after some more money of course!
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Posted By Phil Rose
Pete - I have never thought of it that way but wonder if you may have hit the nail on the head - perhaps they are 'fearful' of the word rather than the job. Something worth thinking about for sure
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Posted By Andy Brazier
I can't agree with Raymond. We need people to be competent, and saying they have been trained is not good enough. In general I think we are shying away from the competence issue. It is far easier to send someone on a training course than to really think what competencies people need and to follow it up with checking they have those competencies.
I do agree with Phil and Pete, that you need to fully understand what the problem is. Make sure you have specified the competence criteria very clearly. Then you can ask whether people feel they have not achieved the criteria or whether they feel the criteria are wrong.
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Posted By Steve M Granger
.... put them through training, assess and determine that they have understood, observe work practice and establish the theory is being put into practice, benchmark against any specific skills required in a ssw, appoint them to do the job (ensuring there is a caveat in the employment contract; 'or other duties bla bla bla'.
Consult by congratulating and telling them they are now responsible as part of their job, listen to the gripes and then ignore.
The employer is legally responsible for appointing competence - the employees consideration is out of the equation.
If the employee is unable to fulfil their work for a specific reason fair enough - lets hear it, and lets determine if there are grounds of capability... otherwise stop nannying about.
tail, wag, dog?
pay, work, employee?
Steve
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Posted By Sally
Tempting though it may be you can't ignore an employee saying they don't feel they are competent. Imagine if there was an accident and the employee stands up in court and said 'I did tell them I wasn't competent'
I would focus on asking them what they need to become competent - more training, first few checklists double checked etc. And if that doesn't work start talking about redeploying them to jobs that they do feel they are competent to do - probably paying less!
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Posted By Steve M Granger
I agree in part Sally, but the phases of competence are usually decribed as ;
a) unconciously incompetent - I dont know what I dont know?
b) conciously incompetent - I do know what I dont know!
c) unconciously competent - I dont know that I do know?!
d) conciously competent - I know what I know and what I don't know (which isn't very much so I'll call myself a consultant)!!
Looking at c) above might indicate that the employee needs a boot up the backside to cross the threshold to d) if appropriate assessment has been undertaken and time served, peer review, practice etc etc. ;)
Of course that does bring us back to the capability issue.....
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Posted By Kieran J Duignan
Fornhelper
Here are a couple of well-validated, reseach-based methologies for getting to grips with what you describe as 'some staff refusing to accept that they are competent despite the training provided to them. They state they are happy to carry out checks etc but don't wished to be deemed competent and won't sign off the monthly checksheets we have arranged!!!;
One is the psychology of personal constucts, which emerged in 1955 and has been used in diverse settings to reliably and validly understand how individuals make sense of their own situation. This originated in counselling and therapy and has become reasonably well tried in organsiational setings; along with a couple of others, I've been using it in coaching for more than a decade.
The other has been a very creative approach known as 'appreciative coaching' which builds on a methodology known as 'appreciatiive inquiry' which emerged in 1985.
If you need to know more about either methodology, get in touch with me offline.
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