Posted By JACOB I I would like to know the type of safety harness with lanyard which has to be worn by scaffolders while erecting scaffolding. Do you need to wear a harness during the erection process,ie,when the height of the scaffolding is less than 6mtrs.I was told that the harness with lanyard will be effective only when the height is 6mtrs or more. So what is the solution when the height is less than 6mtrs? While erecting the scaffolding and you have come upto 2 mtrs high how does one protect oneself from a fall??

Posted By FAH Hi Jacob You don't identify why you've raised this question, so I'll restrict my response. Apart from Daves observation, lanyards that absorb suspension shock by extending [in any way] should not be allowed where the potential fall [anchor point to operatives feet + safety margin] is less than the overall design extension of the lanyard; whether temporary [elasticated] or permanent [pull-out]. Sorry about all the brackets - used for brevity. Also, it is possible to get very short [.5m or less] lanyards if the situation warrants it. I would suggest that Daves comment re self-retracting lanyards is given serious consideration, especially at lower levels - BUT, always ensure that you have an immediately available means of retrieving a suspended operative without waiting for external assistance. Frank Hallett

Posted By worldwide Rich is right, that collective protection must be used before personnel, however the work at Height regs requires a step before that to avoid work at height. However as a safety manager for a Scaffold company, we cannot avoid working at height, and given the sites, we work on cannot use collective measure at all times. so the scaffold industry use SG4 05 (safety guidance no 4 from NASC) if you want to email me at peter.webb@nicoluk.com I can email the training pack, we use for SG4. But in general scaffolders should wear a 2 point body harness, (the second D ring for rescue purposes)c/w a fall arrestor (normal length 1.7 m)at all times, SG4 states when they must use the arrestor, but normally after the first lift (as the arrestor is not effective and the first lift of the scaffold is not braced to support a fall) Some Clients manly USA / Canada based have procedures which require scaffolders to be "clipped on at all time" this is against the WAH regs, so you have to work with them to suggest SG4 guidance. Note SG4 is changing in 2010, and will be stricter, an additional guidance note has been issued by NASC

Posted By Dave Merchant Before this descends into a UK legislation argument, bear in mind Jacob is from the UAE.

Posted By A Campbell Made me chuckle re: having to be clipped on at all times... when training & encouraging use of harnesses in West Africa, they preferred to wear it at all times... even inside the handrails! Should I have correct them?... not at all... they felt safe they worked safely!

Posted By FAH Thanks for the comprehensive response worldwide [Peter]. I'm not ignoring you, just earning some pennies before I think in depth on your response. Frank Hallett

Posted By Dave Merchant I wouldn't pay much heed to the NASC exam answers, most of them are wrong. CFT - are those download links copyright-legal?

Posted By patrick carr Hi I can remember a post "Scaffolders working at Height" where i had the same sort of debate with Dr Dave Merchant, I thought SG4:05 was the Scaffolders 'Holy Grail' however, Dave opened my eyes to the shortfalls within SG4:05. Worldwide, you say NASC has issued a 'Additional Guidance Note', is this the one where it states that the HSE find it unacceptable for a scaffolder to traverse the length of the handrail to be installed, and the NASC recommends installing a 'Advanced Guardrail? Regards Paddy

Posted By FAH Thanks for such an explicit comment Dave; better than my considered offering. All that remains is to underline that the specific legal requirement [the Work at height Regs or whatever you use in your locale] should never be considered to be subservient to an industry standard - no matter how strenuously defended - unless that law explicitly supports that. In the UK, that law doesn't! Frank Hallett

Posted By worldwide Gents, the original post (from UAE) was about what harness, should a scaffolder wear, my answer is 2 point body harness with a fall arrester at all times. However we seem to gone off on a track, possibly because I mentioned SG4 05, our industries CoP, I also suggested that clients breach the WAH because the original risk assessment required to avoid scaffolding is not carried out and suitable other measures are not used (as NEBOSH says "Discuss") However Dave, in the real world, clients ask us to errect a scaffold at short notice, (We had over 2,500 scaffolder on a recent petrochem shutdown) They do not always give us time to get designs done (around 3 to 5 weeks) which are required for non simple scaffolds. SG4 originally was released in 2000, revised in 2005, because of the WAH, and endorsed by the HSE, the changes due in 2010, will stop the tunnelling, but the single handrail will remain. But there still will be a real world need to climb structures, clipping on as advance guard rails, and scaffolder step, cannot be used in close piperacks and some industrial structures. The two reasons why, scaffolders use fall arrest only after the first lift, are: one the arrest as previously discussed do not work below 4m or 6m if clipped to foot level & two, on a independent scaffold, until the bracing or ties are fitted (which requires access to that level) the scaffold is not stable, to use attach a fall arrest, (like a mobile tower, is not) The Company safety awareness course course I ran this year together with independent consultant, was attended by the work at height HSE inspector, and she endorsed SG4 working. Again my issue is with Street scaffolders, who erect scaffold with no safety precautions, to protect the public, no harnesess, no ties, no bracing, no design (see TG20, EN 12811-1), no gates or swing bar, and no stairs, where are the local authorities, and are they not stopped and taken to court. Dave, Another discussion point which regs, apply to an scaffold asbestos enclosure built to CAW, the CAW regs or the WAH regs, if you apply CAW, then you cannot inspect the scaffold against WAH, do want to start another thread?

Posted By Peter Webb Sorry Dave, the Control of Asbestos at Work, I had a lively discussion with a safety officer, from another asbestos removal firm, (who did not do scaffolding) if you build an enclosure to meet CAW, you cannot them inspect it as required under the WAH, 1) boards and structural member are covered up and 2) normally scaffolders are not trained to enter live enclosures. So which regs do you follow? Anyway back to scaffolding, i would not put another lanyard, with my scaffolders harness, they carry enough equipment, a two point harness, a double lanyard (elastic) c/w 2 alloy scaff hooks, a tool belt and several spanners, (which some client want with separate lanyards) plus site required PPE, and on one site, my scaffolders have to wear goggles whilst erecting at height. (which they see {or not}as dangerous) I stand by my claim, that the first lift of a tube & fitting scaffold, is unsuitable to attach a fall arrester to, (system scaffolding can be) not with standing the length of the lanyard, SG4:10 will still have this in, but will remove the tunneling, but on a small tower 10 X 10, how can a scaffolder top out, (ie add a standard) when the guard rails are not in place, advanced guard rails & other method are fine, on a build as you have long straight sections, however on our petrochemical site, most scaffolds are odd shapes built in and around structures. I don't know where you are based, but you are more than welcome to come and observe the our scaffolders, at work, to see the problems, and why SG4, is the best practive, for scaffold erection. The additional changes to remove tunneling, are being currently worked on, ready for 2010, we will use a scaffolding step, other companies are going to use 1/2 lifts, moving the board each time, Note, we are not NASC members, so no axe to grind Pete

Posted By JCRT Hi With over 25 years experience in scaffolding, I would agree that it is very easy to strengthen, extend or kentledge the first lift on a scaffold Independent/tower to allow Inertia type arrest systems to be used at low level. However I believe that AGR or 1/2 lift and step or even a combination of this and other protection methods can be adopted in many circumstances, even in the Oil and Gas Industry where I presently work. Having spent many years erecting in Pipe racks and congested areas I am fully aware of the constraints and difficulties that are commonplace. What we must avoid (and I hear it all the time) is the attitude that these difficult areas are used as an excuse to belittle new technologies "they cant work on our site" so we stick to SG:04,5 and hooking on at our feet. Just because the gables of pipe racks are congested should not mean that we do not use collective fall protection methods on any clear sides/areas of the scaffold structure. If a scaffolder (hooked on at his feet) were to fall and be seriously injured in circumstances when it was possible to deploy collective fall protection techniques, I would not like to be on the receiving end of the HSE Investigation. (Cost V Risk taken into account of course) I would also like to agree with the previous comment regarding the inspection of large encapsulated scaffold structures. It is quite common for scaffold companies to allow operatives to Lath or tie sheeting to the inside of the scaffold structure, In 2003/4 I wrote a published site specific scaffold standard which recommended against this method for Three reasons. First, you effectively cover the hand rail with smooth plastic sheeting preventing the opportunity to steady yourself if you slipped or tripped. Second, in storm force winds no matter how well fixed the Laths can be blown off resulting in sticks with protruding nails/screws falling from height and littering grade. Finally, and most important, how do you inspect the integrity of a 50m tower if you cannot see 50% of the fittings or system connections? Regards John

Posted By Dave Merchant All this "do we follow CAR or WAHR" stuff is utterly stupid. Legislation is legislation - you cannot decide to pick which bits you follow even if they _seem_ to be incompatible. They are evidently not incompatible - all you need is to find a scaffold inspector with the CAR training and tickets to enter the tent, or vice versa. There may not be many of them, but there's no reason why such a person can't exist - and that's what HSE will tell you to go find. When I needed underwater scaffold inspected I had to find a commercial diver with a scaffolding ticket - same problem, same scarcity, but perfectly doable.