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Posted By John Mac Carthy
Colleagues
I have recently conducted an inspection on a newly build premises (2008), which is accessed consistently by members of the public.
Within this area were lavatories, male, female and disabled, they were fitted with self closers and of fire door construction but did not have any fire seals fitted.
This evolved to an interesting conversation with a fellow safety colleague regarding, do toilets need to have self closers, fire doors or even fire seals fitted. I said yes, due to the fire spread minimisation (compartmentalisation) factor, he has argued rather convincingly that it is unnecessary.
What says the greater audience, have I won a free cup of tea from my colleague?
Any point of reference you can suggest, provide a link to please.
Thank you
John
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Posted By Swis
Depends upon your fire RA.
I personally think that this would be unnecessary approach.
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Posted By Stuff4blokes
John, it depends whether the toilet doors are actually fire resisting doors and that itself will depend on the fire risk and whether the integrity of the door seal is a crucial factor in controlling fire/smoke spread and assisting escape.
For a toilet block located on a landing or on an escape route then the answer may well be yes, whereas one in the far corner of a floor in a building with good access control and very low likelihood of arson would be considered as much lower risk.
As Swis says, this judgement will have to be made as part of the risk assessment.
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Posted By John Mac Carthy
Thanks for the comments.
They are located adjacent an emergency route and have door closers fitted.
This is why I was saying yes originally 'compartmentalisation'.
So far looks like I'm winning that cup of tea.
More comments welcome please.
Thanks
John
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Posted By tony fog
I would most certainly say yes, if they are leading directly onto the fire exit strategy, be very dificult to argue otherwise, if as mentioned they are well away from the fire exits i.e an inner room, then no they wouldn't
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Posted By CFT
John
Your post prompted me to get out of my comfortable chair - and walk this building. Built 2004/5 - 80,000 sq ft.
There is an intumescent strip fitted to each of the disabled toilets - because they are dedicated fire-keeps. No other WC frame has intumescent strips fitted - nor does my FRA identify this as any type of problem requiring further action. Mostly I suppose because there is nothing fitted within - that could be classed as immediately combustible. No electric hand-dryers, no external heating etc.
Sorry I didn't have time to find a reference point.
CFT
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Posted By Ron Hunter
Door closers on toilet entry doors are a standard fit for privacy and for control of odours, not really relevant to the FRA argument as such?
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Posted By DPK
John
Fire doors do NOT have to have seals and strips legally. So do you have to fit them, Strictly speaking NO.
Do they work and provide protection to escape routes and other places which may be effected by smoke, absolutely YES.
Would I fit them to toilets or any other low use room or cupboard then the answer is, depends on the risk. Hence the Fire Risk Assessment. When i conduct FRA's i think of the schools i attended in the past where the kids could light a fire in the loo's pretty much unnoticed, the fuel for these fire, generally loo roles, hand towels or even things they had bought into the toilets to burn.
Its horses for courses as others have already said.
If i was unsure and the fact that you can buy retro fitting strips then i would opt for the fitting of them.
DPK
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Posted By tdunbar
Some reasons why toilet doors could be fire doors:-
Contain a fire risk.
WC is off a room and the WC window is an exposure hazard to an escape route.
Element of the compartmentation of the building.
But most likely because the designer did not know that the WC didn't need a fire door.
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Posted By safetyamateur
How on earth did the seals get in there in the first place? And, as for horses.
Sorry
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