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Posted By TDsafety
Does anybody know of any designers prosecution cases under CDM 2007, designing out the risks. Can't find any on HSE web site. Thanks
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Posted By Paul Leadbetter
Td
Do desingers sing desong?
Paul
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Posted By TDsafety
Opps sorry for the typo
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Posted By Raymond Rapp
TD
I recall a few years ago a prosecution of a architect, which was hailed at the time as the first prosecution of a designer under the old CDM Regs of 1994. The crime of this so-called designer was to design in a concrete block which weighed more than 25Kg. As is often the case, the HSE followed up a complaint following an a back injury to an operative. The site supervisor was not prosecuted either.
To be honest, a pretty pathetic use of a major piece of legislation, given that the HSE have admitted that something like 40 percent of accidents on site are due to poor design.
Ray
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Posted By Ron Hunter
I'm aware of 2 cases where Designers were prosecuted (94 Regs). I believe both relate to the same fatality.
Case No. 4019911
Case No. 4019916
I've always taken that blockwork prosecution as a myth. That was after all one of the typical examples quoted in the old ACoP?
At the end of the day,Designers permitted to specify heavy blocks, where justified. That clear specification could itself be considered as adequate communication to the competent contractor, and something the PS/CDM-C should also have highlighted?
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Posted By TDsafety
The problem being that i cant find any prosecutions under the 2007 regs. The HSE recently stated that designers seem to have a poor understanding of their duties. If they perhaps prosecuted a few they may changer their attitudes and go and learn something.
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Posted By Ron Hunter
If all those CDM-Cs out there are doing what they're supposed to, then Designers should be getting it right too.
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Posted By H Baker
It appears that HSE can't win!
If they take a prosecution for something like not taking rp measures to prevent injury that affects over half a million people it is labelled "pathetic" and they get criticism for not taking them.
The trouble is getting the evidence against designers can be very difficult. It is also very difficult to get across to a bench/jury, what can sometimes be a very complicated relationship between parties within a CDM chain. There are undoubtedly more cases taken - and not all of them will be on the HSE database. Only the successful ones!
Ray - it is easy to criticise without all the facts. Why is it pathetic? These blocks were 36Kg. Other parties weren't prosecuted as there were mitigating factors for them.
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Posted By Pete Sutton
The desinger prosecution mentioned earlier in the thread was Neil Vesma, and probably the only reason the prosecution was successful was because he admitted guilt almost immediately.
There are numerous others, and one of the ones i use in my training session is Condor Structures whereby the designer was prosecuted for failing to give information on wind laoding speeds for th eerection of steelwork and a young operative lost his life...
Message me if you need any further information
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Posted By Raymond Rapp
H Baker
I believe that the employer or site supervisor should have been more accountable. Surely, they could recognise a manual handling issue of blocks weighing 36kg. Where was the approved SSoW? Could they not have used a FLT or Telehandler? Anyway, it just seems a shame that having waited all these years for a designer to be held to account for a poor design, the authorities pick on a soft target like a self-employed architect. That's why it was pathetic.
I look forward to the day a finance director is prosecuted under health and safety laws for withholding a budget. Now that would be a first! Let's just hope they do not pick on his bookkeeper.
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Posted By peter gotch
TD
Don't think there have been any successful designers under CDM2007 to date.
CDM1994 from 1995-2007 - 14 convictions of designers in 12 years, 20 convictions of planning supervisors.
My understanding is that the architect did NOT specify "grunters", but was criticised for not spelling out that grunters are dangerous in pre-tender health and safety plan. But we are not supposed to teach competent contractors how to suck eggs.
Somewhat unsurprising that the steel erection company pleaded guilty to design charge. They were also charged as the contractor. Early guilty plea results in discount in fine (as per sentencing guidelines).
Regards, Peter
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