Posted By Rob W I visited a site recently that operates 2 overhead cranes on the same track, no anti-collision devices fitted. I queried this and was told that it was not possible to retrofit these old cranes ( some near 50 years old )with suitable anti collision devices - also informed that the HSE have been in and did not say anything !. The only precaution against collisions that they operate is to be careful. After speaking to a contact within the industry it appears that the retrofitting of such devices is possible but often expensive due to the need to replace / upgrade control systems. I believe that such systems should be retrofitted where possible and relying on persons being careful is an inadequate control. I would however appreciate the views of those more knowledgeable about the operation of overhead cranes and the retrofitting of safety devices than myself.

Posted By garyh The principle in this is surely very simply - risk based. "Reasonably practicable" means balancing cost v benefit. Same as all other risks?

Posted By Kenneth Patrick Rob, Don't trains in many places run on single track lines? Ken

Posted By Bob Shillabeer Can't quite see where the train bit came from but to answer the question there are several methods to ensure no more than one traion is in the section at one time and they work. The first principle of train operation is one train ina section at one time. When on a single line the method of operation is designed to do this. Still wondering how two carnes on a single track meet the same principle of trains but will continue to worry about it.

Posted By naveen duggal hi, Appreciate the views & comments of having Overhead cranes with anti collsion device, good idea! However, the basic or some of the root causes of many such accidents,in general, have been attributed to a)human-error b)Equipment failure c)lack of supervision i.e. Communication gap between the operators,riggers, banks man & Engineer d)environment & weather conditions e)Work in hurry!Not following procedures f)Incompetent experienced operator g)Very old equipment used without safety inspection,valid test certification & license. f)Deliberately, by-pass the safety deviceg) h)No rigging plan & no enforcement Having a Risk assessmentsigned by team doing the job,Permit to work system in place,good communication,Plant & Equipment inspected,certificate of competance,Pre-start meeting and proper scheduling of operation between the two operatoive parties,responsible person present during operation or safety official,supervisor can help in minimising the risk of failure. However, Machines, electrical devices, computer contolled sensor with anti collsion devices might be good idea, may turn out to be expensive.So cost v benefits have to be considered before recommending. Best regards, Naveen

Posted By 888BW Horizontal Crane Detection Systems (Indoor & Outdoor) I have only just noticed this site so I have joined and hopefully will be able to make a contribution. I noted with interest the comments made on the matter of Overhead Cranes Anti Collision Devices. The very wording is not strictly correct as any equipment fitted is wholly reliant on the applied to overhead cranes having an effective and maintained long travel bridge automatic travel Braking System. As such this is not a product that actually stops the Crane but invokes the on crane mechanics to do so (ask any US lawyer of such implied wording). I prefer to call such products 'Crane Detection Systems'. I have been in the Crane business for over 45 years and have been instrumental in the design and development of overhead crane remote control and crane detection systems, using a variety of communication mediums most of that time. Many systems sold as anti-collision (crane detection systems) are of a retro reflective type, operating with a simple (internal) on off switch wired to inhibit the applied to travel direction of the subject Crane. This type of system is a beam break and is not designed for this type of application as it wholly relies on a reflected signal from a typical car type reflector which if it becomes dirty or dislodged or suffering light refraction will either will or will not work or cannot work (frozen) and which cause nuisance tripping as well as collisions. Crane Detection Systems that are specifically designed for crane applications need to provide a range of detection zones thus to facilitate a reduction in crane speeds through to a final stop zone. In built intelligence takes in to account the closing speed of two cranes travelling at full speed or a single lone crane travelling in an opposing direction thus permitting the Cranes to approach each other in a controlled way enabling full operational use of the users production or manufacturing area. The most effective system is a system that handshakes in either a half or full duplex mode (the latter preferred), this means that both systems (each crane mounted) communicate crane to crane, each then having the intelligence to detect the relative crane speeds and automatically reduce the crane speeds by each zone set relative to the individual crane speed and stopping distances all being set during installation and by a means that is controlled so as to prevent unauthorised changes to the settings made by the installer/competent person. These systems are designed and manufactured in the United Kingdom and can be seen on http://www.commander.co.uk/collisionavoidance.htm. Vertical Crane Detection Systems (Indoor & Outdoor) Frequently forgotten until there is an incident or accident are Crane installations where there are two or more crane gantry levels and where high level Cranes pass over lower level Cranes and vice versa. Collisions that occur on these applications are more serious as lower Cranes can be dislodged from the lower level gantry by the upper crane hook/slings or suspended load. To overcome accidents with this type of installation more specialist hardware is available in the form of a vertical Detection System This system type detects both upper Cranes and lower Cranes in the travel directions and inhibits to prevent collisions. Various options are available to facilitate safe over/under passing of the Cranes on the two levels. Any questions will be answered.

Posted By 888BW Building structures for example 600M long would need more than one or even two cranes. I have seen up to 30 cranes on a single gantry and with more on two gantry levels! Crane gantries and supporting building structures are designed to accept the imposed wheel loadings dont you know. Any additional crane(s) being installed irrespective of how many already exist are subject to gantry survey and design calculation if not already ascertained in the original building design as to the suitabillity of the existing structure for the additional loadings. As well as the responsibility of the property owner, such installations are also subject to statutory inspection and insurance survey. It is true however that some gantries have to have proximity restrictions imposed for relevant wheel loadings. An ideal device is the system mentioned in my previous topic response for multiple zone detection which can be used to keep cranes further apart than just for collision avoidance purposes. See the systems on http://www.commander.co.uk/collisionavoidance.htm. Thanks.