Posted By Jim Walker HSE Statistics show deaths at work have dropped in the past year - this is "somehow" being presented as a success by HSE. SHP editor (see Comment in July issue) has certainly swallowed this line. And here was me thinking it was due to the rapid fall off in the working population. The brunt being born by all the poor saps (in manufacturing & construction) who have lost their jobs in the current recession.

Posted By f5refresh Jim totally agree with your comments. I too was reading the editorial comment in SHP and found it somewhat insensitive for the editor to use such comments like "extremely positive" and "extremely encouraging". Yes fatalities are down to a record low but 180 people died at work last year - to me that is not positive or encouraging.

Posted By Phil Rose In fairness, I think that the HSE are claiming the 'holy grail' of health and safety and they have sought to put the figure into some sort of context in their release notes. I for one welcome the trend going downwards rather than upwards, whatever the reason.

Posted By GeoffB4 Perhaps they are realists Tony. The point being made is that industry in terms of the higher risk occupations has reduced in size dramatically. By definition that must 'positively' affect the fatality and accident statistics. Personally I think we are over claiming if we are suggesting 'we' have a substantial claim to reducing accidents at work.

Posted By D H Tony - Geoff made a very valid point in my opinion and did not deserve your put down. But to compare the potential of a fatality on a construction site compared to a bank or Woolworth's does not strike me as realistic! As for the HSE - don't get me started! If the HSE was to include the deaths of people at work who die on the roads, it may force someone to take charge of road policing. The amount of people (general public as well as workers) on mobile phones, no seat belts etc is atrocious! As for the HSE stating that falls from height is still the biggest individual killer - but there is no safety awareness or campaign on the safe procedure to deal with going onto the back of lorries to access or secure loads etc. I agree that "we" are aligned with the wishes of the HSE - but you just need to check the amount of RIDDOR related questions on this forum to realise that the HSE are quite happy to leave things rather grey. If your posting to Geoff was not meant as a put down, I apologise profusely. Kind Regards Dave

Posted By Phil Rose Sorry - in my post above I should have said "..I DON'T think that the HSE are claiming the 'holy grail' of health and safety.."

Posted By TonyB Geoff & Dave, I was in no way putting Geoff down. If it appears that way then I apologise. Everybody is entitled to express their opinion, that's the point of this forum. My basic point, like Toe was that can't we just accept that stats fell and less people died. This is a good thing. Let's not try and deflate this success and just accept it. Doesn't mean we can sit back and do nothing more - even one death is to many. Everybody, including the HSE still has a lot of work to do so lets get on with it. TonyB

Posted By Toe The reality of it is that Major Accidents will increase because of this project, I do accept this. However we should not accept the fact that because there has been a large reduction of heavy industry over the years that this is the reason for the reduction, because if we take this viewpoint, what have we safety practitioners (or HSE) be doing over the past few years. I think that we have achieved great success in the UK over the years and I would like to think that compared with a similar project overseas or a project that was undertaken many years ago that in comparison there will be statistically less deaths and major Injuries, this time round. Again IMHO less accidents and less deaths MUST be a success. Note I do not work for the HSE. DH Fully get your point about long term (chronic) Ill health effects, but this has always been the case for many years, again we now have more controls for contrilling these issues that we have ever had in the past i.e. automated welding processes, LEV systems built into the welders mask etc..

Posted By GaryC40 Any decrease in death is positive - story ended. As long as the same system is used for collating data i.e. the fatality totals are not 'massaged' in ANY way then why is this debate relevant? Sometimes i wonder. GC

Posted By garyh I am not a mathematician or statistician by training (I am a chemist). However, I am dismayed by apparently professional people in this thread by people drawing absolutely certain conclusions from figures such as these. You cannot say for certain what this drop in rate is due to - there is always a degree of randomness in trends. One change upward or downwards in any set of data points should be treated with caution. Putting all that to one side, surely we should all at least applaud the lower fatality rate this year. One final thought - if wants to HSE take credit when rates drop, will they accept the blame should they go up.............cue tumbleweed.............

Posted By tmg Agreed, any decrease in workplace fatalities is to be welcomed. However, as previous posters have mentioned, the numbers must be taken in context – and the HSE rightly acknowledge that further drilling of the stats is required: "This statistical snapshot needs careful analysis to help us to understand underlying factors, including the impact of the recession…. the number and proportion of workers being killed in the workplace is likely to reduce in an economic downturn. But we also know from the past that the number and the rate of fatal injuries increase when trading conditions pick up"