Posted By GeoffB4 I also, basically, agree with you Crim. The problem is that if a speaker grossly exaggerates at one point, then how can anybody believe the rest of what is being said?

Posted By GeoffB4 A lie to win scenario then? How can you condone that attitude, especially in H&S (how could you be trusted?).

Posted By GeoffB4 Martin, you are condoning it by not condemning it. Because people do exaggerate, it does not make it right or acceptable. As I said before how can a person have a credible argument if they grossly exaggerate.

Posted By martinw Geoff - disagree. I am not condoning something by not condemning it. There is a difference between talking about a topic and having an opinion on one side of that topic or another. Not talking about or actively condemning racism all day every day does not mean that I am a racist.(I am not, in case you feel that I need to say it outright). So me not condemning something does not mean that I am condoning it. People exxagerate all the time, all the more to make their own arguments sound more scary and to make non-agreement with their point of view illogical. How many speeches do you remember by Enoch Powell? Rivers of blood. Any more? I, like you, am not condoning exxageration and believe that it would damage your reputation should you do this in a report to a client. I also would not use a lie to win a scenario. I am simply pointing out that others may do so.

Posted By Bill01 I want to know how you cook your insides if you dont know how to use a microwave correctly, surely you just end up with cold or over cooked food :-)

Posted By martinw Get an Aga. Much safer.(I don't have one)

Posted By Bill01 Crim, Appreciate the suggestion but if I didn't know how to use a microwave, you can be pretty sure I probably wouldn't know how to remove the door and then turn it on.

Posted By martinw Hi Jim I didn't know of the existence of a FB audit set. Is this set something which would be useful for those who carry out assessments, and if so, is there a way of getting such a set? Martin

Posted By JohnV Gents the following is an extract from an article published on the FPA website: Fire extinguishers in the workplace Figures from the UK fire safety industry show that about 80% of all fires are put out using a portable fire extinguisher before the arrival of the fire and rescue service. Furthermore, estimates suggest that extinguishers save 24 lives and prevent 1,629 fire-related injuries each year, as well as saving the UK economy £500 million. The full article can be read at: http://www.thefpa.co.uk/...ishersintheworkplace.pdf I am aware that the FPA is - historically - a body representing, in part, the interests of the Insurance Industry, and, several of its members are organisations which make a living out of servicing fire extinguishers. However, it is an authoritative source of guidance on Fire Safety matters and there is, I believe, enough justification in this article to silence those who keep arguing against the provision of fire extinguishers in the workplace and the requirement to train staff in their use. John

Posted By Jim Tassell (2) Martin Well spotted - that's the beast! Thanks Jim

Posted By peter gotch 1 Hi Crim, Historically, Brigades have applied different approaches and I doubt that consistency has suddenly broken through. Many years ago, as an HSE Inspector I went on a Practical Fire Procedures course at the training centre of a County Fire Brigade who shall be nameless as I don't think I still have the notes to back up what I am about to write. Previously, we had used a well known centre in Gloucestershire [Jim T might have been there], where apparently an inspector had got slightly singed when using an extinguisher, so that for my course, playing with fire extinguishers was OFF the agenda. [We still got to play with fork trucks, horizontal moulding machines and cranes and build scaffolds?!?!] Anyway, the clear advice from this Brigade was that people are REALLY bad at understanding how fast a fire spreads, so GET OUT and leave it to the professionals. In contrast, our fire certificate in Glasgow required ALL staff to be trained in the use of fire extinguishers. Subject to insurance requirements, I tend to the former view, not least as my initial HSE training pointed to a fatality in a quilt factory where it was reported that a single roll of material ignited on the cutting table on the opposite side of the room to the fire exit where the extinguisher was placed. The story continues that the operative went to get the extinguisher and back to the fire, but that this/products of combustion had spread to and along the ceiling and then down again preventing safe egress. Taking all this into mind, I am sure there are situations where removal [or lack of provision] of extinguishers is a sensible outcome from a suitable and sufficient fire risk assessment - and the lack of a commercial approach by KB's external company might be deserving of a hurrah. Regards, Peter

Posted By Jim Tassell (2) I was on the very course that Peter refers to above! Talk about gross over-reaction by the HSE as it was an extremely good course, probably the best I have ever been on. Getting back to the point though; the fire protection industry see some value in fire extinguishers, brigades probably mostly likewise but with significant reservations due to risk of trapping of over-enthusiastic individuals. Even with some training we can't really predict who will do what under emergency conditions and the over-enthusiastic person is more a problem than the one who simply walks out, slopy-shouldered and leaves it to "the professionals". So, we provide a basic level of extinguishers, just enough to hand to knock out a waste paper bin fire (dog ends - who said dog ends???)or overheating copier but not enough for the hero to fetch more, and more, and more then realise he can't get out. Also, we locate the extinguishers near the exits so the have-a-go hero is approaching the fire from his escape route. Have I missed anything? Regards to all Jim