Posted By AHS This is more about ill health pensions than pure Health and Safety. Fireman/Police/Prison staff were well looked after if they severley injured themselves being brave but not anymore.

Posted By John Richards Oh no it's not: http://www.dailymail.co....ours-desperate-help.html http://www.thesun.co.uk/...d-Safety-Stop-Order.html http://www.thesun.co.uk/...-mins-on-risk-check.html

Posted By A Campbell Pity it's not on page 3 ... or I might be more inclined to read it!

Posted By Robert K Lewis The real shock horror story the Sun missed was that, on their own admission, the Fire Service do not understand their own dynamic risk assessment procedure. If it was a gas leak and it was buring there was no chance of a gas build up. Did the Fire Service Risk Assessors then cause these deaths? Not a H&S scandal then but one of poor training and incompetent application of principles. Bob

Posted By Crim I haven't read the articles but in support of the fire brigade they responded to the fire. The duty to carry out the risk assessment was the people responsible for the building i.e. the local council. Can you really blame the fire fighters for looking afer their personal health and safety and following pre determined plans for action, based upon previous experince and risk assessment?

Posted By Buzz I know there is a lot of speculation over the cause/contributory factors to this fire; where's best to keep on top of what's happening following the investigation?

Posted By Kate Gibb They were in a no-win situation there. Had the leaking gas exploded there would have been more lives lost and serious questions over who allowed the fire fighters to remain in a dangerous building. I do not envy those people carrying out the DRAs and making the decisions. The thoery of DRA is a lot easier than the practice in a real-life stressful situation. This is why the fire authorities spend a great deal of time carrying out practices, but nothing can mirror the real thing. Thanks to recent improved fire safety, tower block infernos like the most recent tragic one are (thankfully)a rarity that FFs do not come across that often

Posted By Peter F. Why read such garbage. Ban the Sun!!!

Posted By D H That should have read "someone is tasked with that judgement call" Dave

Posted By DPK Oh to be perfect, comments such as if they cant do their job then move them on are so easy to make, however have you even the tiniest inkling of how DRA works in real life. I suggest unless you have served with one of the armed forces or emergency services then you probably haven't a clue. I along with many others have carried out desk top exercises using the methodology of DRA, i have also recently completed a virtual reality 1 week DRA based training course, which was very enlightening. But then little can prepare you for the pressure placed upon you as the person responsible for making that call, yes the training IMHO is good, as good as i have received any where else, if not better. But when the S*"!T hits the fan that DRA becomes significantly more difficult to make, this ain't some thing that is being written on the shop floor or behind a desk, its an assessment being made under duress, even with the selection process and significant training which is in place for those expected to make these decisions, hence the reason that sometimes a wrong call is made (AND I AM NOT SUGGESTING FOR 1 MOMENT THIS IS THE CASE IN THIS INCIDENT). So please, if you are going to criticise, then please know the facts before hand, and i can assure you those facts will not come from the Sun Comic. I will not even waste my time reading the rubbish as i have no interest in what the reporters of that publication have to say. DPK

Posted By Bob Shillabeer I can't believe what I am reading. I am not saying the firemen were wrong because I don't know much about the incident. But, I saw a programme just the other night where a gas main was on firenear a burning van which could have spread to other vehicles so needed to tackled quickly. The fire brigade put up a curtain of water to divert the flames so a stop cock could be closed turning the gas off. Not knowing the full facts in this case I presume this was not possible so the person in charge decided that it was too dangerous to continue and the poor people died. Now to change tac a bit just think if he had allowed the rescue to continue and not only the oor victims died but one or more of his officers died as well. When people such as fire fighters make these judgements they don't do it with the view of getting anything out of it they do so in good faith so let the internal process decide if it was the right or wrong action, it is not for us to judge this one.

Posted By DPK Bob Shillabeer Thank You, you have written the words i wanted to but was more expressive in my post, hence the reason it was removed by the Mods. I completely agree with your comments. DPK

Posted By martinw Bob do you feel that it was inappropriate for the HSE to get involved when firefighters died? They were at work. I appreciate that they make decisions that we normally would never even have to contemplate but they are not exempt from HASAWA. Who else should investigate if a FF dies on duty if it was due to lack of training updates or of insufficient procedures? Martin