Posted By paulw71 As we all know reg 7 of the MOHASAW regs 1999 says employers have a duty to appoint competant persons to assit him in undertaking the measures he needs to comply with the requirements and prohibitions imposed on him so he can be in compliance with etc etc. When I read questions about people asking about quite basic issues and what a risk assesment involves (I`m assuming these people are asking beacause its their responsibility) I find it quite disturbing. I am in no way critisizing them for asking the question (at least they have the sense to know what they dont know and seek assistance) but really, should some of these people be in the position that they are putting together ssow and risk assessing when apparantly they dont have the first idea of what to do. I read the post the other day regarding someone asking whether the hasawa was law or guidance and understand his point about some posters derisive reponses but on the flip side providing advice on matters to someone who really doesnt know how to use it could be equally as bad as incorrect advice or no advice at all. This does no way apply to all questions asked on this forum. I just feel some of them shouldn`t have to be. Let the torrent of abuse begin

Posted By paulw71 Ok why are they asking, presumably because its their job to do it. But they dont know how to do it ergo their not competant and should not be doing that role. As I said I am aware that we all have to ask questions at times because of the wide ranging issues involved in health and safety but some of the questions asked can be so basic that the person asking should not be filling the role of competant H&S advisor. Also I feel i have a valid point and will post where I like thank you.

Posted By Rob W Unfortunately many people who are appointed as a "competent persons" simply are not. They are often thrown in at the deep end ( against their will ) with little knowledge about H&S and no knowledge of what the management regs require in terms of competent assistance. At least those who ask very basic questions on this site recognise their own lack of knowledge and most of the time they will be pointed in the right direction, we should be more concerned about the others out there who don't ask ( at least not until something serious happens )

Posted By martinw I am not a competent H&S person in every aspect of health and safety, but I am competent in the specific area of health and safety in which I work. Does that count?

Posted By paulw71 Please dont think I am trying to be confrontational or provocative (I`m not). But if you where at a meeting with someone who was in a position of responsibility for health and safety and they had to ask you some of the basic questions that are sometimes asked on here you would be shocked. Never mind thrown into it, peoples wellbeing is at stake and I dont feel it is wrong to respond to some people saying that if they have to ask then they should not be doing the job. better than giving them advice and then them going and cocking it up beacause they dont really know how to use resulting in someone being injured or worse

Posted By Bob Shillabeer Calm down everyone no need to get uptight about this it is a public forum anyway and not everyone is saying they are competent thats why so many questions are asked. Just look at the other forums to see how many contribute there. A note to those who are competent (IOSH members) pleasze try and keep things on a level playing field as it is good to talk but not so good to plough on regardless.

Posted By paulw71 No their just asking because they are fascinated by risk assessments and who can blame them. Do you think theyre just sat at home bored and think "I know, I think I will produce a safe system of work for some random task." Doubt it dont you.

Posted By Mark Johnson Part of competence is knowing the limits of your own competence. Even experienced professionals will not have all the answers all the time, so it is doubtful that all responsible persons will do either.

Posted By Steve Cartwright Hi Paul Quote "I'm assuming these people are asking because its their responsibility". You should never assume, there may be loads of reasons why these people ask questions. At least they have got the good sense to ask. All questions are easy if you know the answers. I have a question not related to H&S, but proves my point. Who was the last Welsh speaking footballer to score a goal in an international football match at the old wembley stadium?

Posted By Mark Johnson What is competent advice? It would be nice to think that it would be an fully qualified safety professional but I suspect there are many forms of competent advice including ACOPS, HSE website, professional bodies and the humble IOSH forum to name a few. In an ideal world every business would be 100% compliant with the law and have everything in place including competent advice, but this isn't an ideal world and some businesses don't even care. I think I would rather see them ask basic questions in here than not at all.

Posted By Chris Packham Very early on in my career my mentor at the time said to me: "There are no stupid questions, only stupid answers!" I take the view that as someone concerned with ensuring that my fellow human beings do not come to harm due to their workplace conditions, any question about health and safety is welcome, however, basic. At the very least it shows that the person asking the question is concerned about finding out more. At whatever stage of 'enlightenment' he or she is at the time, the question should be welcomed and answered courteously and to the best of our ability. After all, we all had to start from a basis of ignorance about health and safety at some stage. Encouraging questions, however basic, and attempting to help, has to be good for our profession. On a public forum adopting the attitude that if they have to ask such a basic question they should not have come to this forum can only, in my view, be counterproductive. We should be seen as being concerned and helpful. You never know, being helpful and courteous might actually encourage that person to become more involved and knowledgeable about health and safety, and that can only be good for our profession, and for society as a whole. Chris

Posted By Paul Leadbetter Well said, Chris Paul

Posted By David J Jones To follow on from both Chris and DaGuru, I use an old sawhorse which is as true today as ever was. "Stupid questions make more sense than stupid mistakes" I've used that expression many times over the years and it's surprising just how many people will open up and ask "stupid questions" which they would normally have been afraid to ask for fear of ridicule or being thought as thick as mince, BUT have usually been questions of merit when looked at from a fresh perspective. And there has normally been a huge feeling of relief on the part of the person asking the "stupid question" when given a sensible and understandable answer. Regards, David

Posted By People(HSE) www.hsepeople.com is the first website of its kind. A Social Networking site aimed specifically at Health and Safety People in all industries world wide. In Health and Safety the sharing of Information, Lessons Learned and best practise is very important. [reference removed] brings everything safety together in one place and makes it very easy to communicate with other HSE Professionals, Agencies, Companies, Suppliers, Trainers and Consultants. Only 2 months old but with almost 1000 members and more joining every day, [reference removed] is a not for profit community site that aims to be a one stop shop for anyone working in HSE. On [reference removed] you can create a profile freely advertising your services and availability, Chat instantly with other members through the sites instant messenger or through the discussion forums. With hundreds of HSE jobs being listed from around the world on the RSS Feeds or from the many big agencies posting on the forums [reference removed] has more HSE Jobs than any other site on the Net. Create a blog and let other keep up to date with what you are doing. If it is of interest to the community post it to the site magazine. [reference removed] also gives members the ability to create and manage their own group specific to whatever topic they choose and many agencies are taking advantage of this feature to create jobs groups. If you are a HSE Trainer create an event and advertise course places. People can join your event and leave comments or ask questions. They can also view who else is attending your event and communicate with them. The business directory page is now live and we will constantly be adding to it. If you work, recruit, train or consult in Health and Safety then your business can benefit by being on display to hundreds of the [reference removed] who are likely to use your services. [reference removed] also allows members to upload safety videos and you can now download all the videos using the new Micro Feed option and watch them offline. Great for training purposes! In the very near future we will be launching the document library. This will give any member the ability to upload, search, browse and download Safety Presentations, Procedures, Lessons Learned, Risk Assessments, Checklists, Toolbox talks. In fact any document relating to safety. No longer will you need to re-invent the wheel every time a new challenge presents itself. The chances are some one before you will have done it and you will be able to find it on www.hsepeople.com The site is proving a huge hit and I hope to welcome you there soon Kevin Forbes www.hsepeople.com

Posted By martinw But the question remains - just because you read it on this forum, how do you know it the information is correct? Anyone could post anything. I understand that if someone asks you for information outside your sphere of competency that you could open it to this forum, but as we have seen on many posts in the past, two people with loads of experience may have differing viewpoints. I don't always want opinion on a H&S matter. I want the right answer. How do I assure that?

Posted By Swis To a degree I agree to Paul on this one. There is no harm on asking a question but some people come up with questions for which answers should be obtained in using a bit of common sense, or a simple google. Asking a ‘stupid’ question on these forums highlights one’s incompetency in application of knowledge in different situations. These people require someone to dictate them what to do even in simple scenarios (like a child who needs an adult’s finger to cross the road.) Surly this quality does not fit into H&S professionals remit. Chris – Smart picture in HSE.

Posted By Kevin Drum Chris I actually said that I am not refering to questions of a nature where specialist advice is asked but the very basic ones. By that I meant the ones around the basics like what should I look at when doing a risk assessment that come from people employed in a H&S role. As a public forum if that question is posted by an employer who is not a H&S practitioner and is recognising his responsibility so asking the question - great we need more of that. I was not inferring that anybody like yourself who asks a question regarding an issue they are not familiar with is an idiot and I agree it is far better to ask that guess although I often feel this is not a good forum to ask on , based on some responses. If I offended any H&S person asking a question outwith their area of expertise I apologise that was not my intention. regards Kevin

Posted By justgossip I understand the point raised. I THINK some of the questions that are posted have been posted by persons who should know the answer. I come to this conclusion because when I meet up with H&S responsible people I am sometimes AMAZED at how daft they can be . This morning on a major construction site, big company, big qualifications of persons on site. Subby doing a job next to my lads with chemicals you could smell from a 100 yards. So I asked for the chemical data sheet etc from the PC. Answer Do you not think we have checked this out. I replied yes and could I have a look at it. They had no SDS and no method statement. I have also seen how persons end in charge with no idea of how to make it happen in the work place. Council sends person on NEBOSH course. Persons passes said course and the following week did the DIP course and passed. An associate of mine who owns a business was inspected by said council worker who made a complete hash of the job. garry

Posted By gerry d I am not a qualified H&S professional. I will always be learning. I will continue to ask when not sure about something. I am lucky in that I can confide in a good company infrastructure. It is always good to get a second opinion and using forums such as this is no bad thing. We don`t know who is asking the question. We should not try and presume, assume or second guess who they are and what their responsibilities are. If someone asks a basic question, what is wrong with giving them an answer if you know it/ want to? Otherwise move on to another thread. Also, I am always wary of people who feel the need to put their qualifications on the wall. Some of you guys seem to get very `uppity` when faced with the `hoi polloi`. Not all forum users possess the qualifications you have. Remember, you had to learn from the floorboards up as well.

Posted By Raymond Rapp Not wishing to rub it in but it appears that Paul's comments have been 'shot down in flames' by some very good responses. Interestingly, what may appear to be a simple question rarely ever is. For example, Shaun's 'Should I provide extinguishers in my workplace?' would no doubt provide all sorts of responses both for and against. Still, it could be argued an interesting discussion, although we have had several on this forum regarding this subject.