Posted By martinw One way to get the thread locked

Posted By Peter F. Sorry John meant comments.

Posted By martinw Off the Christmas card list for sure

Posted By Jay Joshi John, As a health and safety professional currently working in the private sector, and having worked with a local authority from 1994 to 1998, I take great exception to your comments. I do not have to justify--others already have, but the story of health and safety in UK has been of significant improvement and yes, I will use the term success, especially when you compare it globally. Zero accidents and zero occupational illnesses are aspirational goals, but do require resourcing by all stake holders and also in a manner that is globally sustainable--otherwise all UK jobs will go offshore.

Posted By John Richards Continued success. 595 (2008/2009) deaths (or 604, depends on the tables) Average for previous 5 years.... 617. Despite the successful exporting of industrial jobs to other countries, the rates seem to have not reflected the job-export success. I doubt that the industrial disease figures are any different. People may dislike my comments, but the facts are that the "success" of health and safety is more one of paper success and not physical success (and financial success) I have no doubt at all that the vast majority of H&S professionals do a good job, within their remit, but they (and we) are constantly let-down by the employers failure to realise that lives are more important than ..... I was going to say profits.....but maybe I'll have to think about that....oooppps....there goes that trap again.

Posted By John Richards Probably Boris was right about "health and safety for the extremely stupid". I just think we disagree about who is actually extremely stupid. Fortunately, the gov agrees with me....and is slowly closing the hse down...if the next gov (in a year or so) carries-on the good work we can have an hse-free country, much less H&S pro's and the legal system can take over enforcing safety by litigating against employers and their advisers.

Posted By Peter F. I have again read the rubbish by Boris, who has made more gaffs than, George Bush. But I think he needs to look at why these absurd notices are in place. It's not because of health and safety, it's convinced me even more, although I didn't need any convincing due to the solicitors out there who have made the compensation culture that the country is seeing. Not only did they give up waiting for people to go to them they started advertising there wares. Adverts like slip, trip or fall, call Paul. Standing on street corners like buskers asking everyone who passed if they had ever had an accident that wasn't there fault. This is not down to health and safety professionals, the HSE or anywhere else this culture started and will continue with the law profession and what they can gain from it. Most H&S people and companies are forced to put up silly signs by insurance companies and overzealous solicitors who can see a pound in everything. A perfect example, we had someone who slipped on ice, they said they knew it was icy, guess how? it was cold, they had to clean the ice off the car, they had to walk slow. Yet they got to work and fell in the car park. 1st question asked by the solicitor was. Did you have warning signs to inform people that it was icy. So don't start telling me that it is due to the H&S profession this is at the legal professions door and once they start having to pay full compensation for all the cases they bring or have companies investigate then this will continue.

Posted By Swis Agree with Peter and co. on. JOhn - plz talk sense.

Posted By Jez Corfield John: Boris doesnt say "health and safety for the extremely stupid". In fact, do a word search for safety in BJ's feature and he states: "We pollute our landscape with signs and clutter of all kind, when they may have nil semiotic value and do nothing for 'elf and safety". He is in essence saying that the laziness, over-zealossness and inconsiderate behaviour by some in errecting these signs is detrimental to proper health and safety, he doesnt knock H&S people, or the HSE, quite the contrary. And where is your evidence for this: "Fortunately, the gov agrees with me....and is slowly closing the hse down...if the next gov (in a year or so) carries-on the good work we can have an hse-free country...." ...And how does that relate to BJ's feature? If you genuinely believe that the people of this country would be better served by having no HSE and fewer HSE pro's, and more legal types, I disagree, but I think its a discussion to have elsewhere....... Jez

Posted By Jay Joshi We seem to be confusing the matter of public safety (and signage primarily for members of public) with workplace safety. The significant proportion of elf ' n safety media stories are to do with public safety. It is the fear of being sued by members of public and/or the need to be seen to be doing something in response to accidents/incidents by local/government authorities that is to be the likely cause of these meaningless signs. In most cases, there is unlikely to be the involvement of health and safety professionals when such decision have been taken.