Posted By Philip McAleenan Ian, Whilst it may not be problematic, it strikes me that it is outside the remit of a CDMC. As the principal contractor you have already demonstrated to the client that you are a competent company. Likewise when you or the client engages sub-contractors, it is for you/them to determine whether they have the necessary competencies to undertake the work. The CDMC may be able to assist in the assessment process, but the ACoP refers to the assessment of key individuals not to every person that will be on site. The assessment of individual site workers is the responsibility of the employer for whom they work. As the principal contractor you have the overall responsibility for safety during construction, and the CDMC is responsible for providing you with information, managing the flow of health and safety information between you, the client and designers, and receiving from you relevant information for the health and safety file. Projects are not expected to be planned out to the smallest degree prior to commencement of construction. A broad based plan for the project with the detail being filled in, in sufficient time for it to be implemented prior to the stage to which it applies comes about is a rational view to planning. To convince the CDMC, use the relevant sections of the ACoP to support your case... Regards, Philip

Posted By Ron Hunter I missed the last bit of your post. On what basis is he withholding a copy of the F10?

Posted By Jason Cox Hi Ian I'm assuming of course the CDM C can produce evidence of his / her competence??? I'm having the opposite at the moment where I have a site in which the CDM C is somewhat anonymous to say the least!! All good fun eh?

Posted By PJA TOTALLY INCOMPETANT CDMC,HAS ANYTHING REALLY CHANGED SINCE THE PREVIOUS REGULATIONS ON THIS SUBJECT? THESE SORT OF PEOPLE NEED TO BE TAKEN TO TASK AS THEY ARE STILL AT IT. ONCE HAD A JOB WHERE THE CPP GOT REJECTED AS I ONLY PUT THE PLANNING SUPERS NAME IN AND NO LETTERS AFTER IT!!!

Posted By Robert K Lewis I have an extreme reluctance to pass out any personalised training records as these do constitute data subject to Data Protection Act. I have no real problems with key staff as I can get their authority but others are a real problem. I also prefer to get people to come and inspect the records as this maintains control over the copying of information to all and sundry. I suspect the contract contains no specific requirement to provide such detailed records and as there is no specific legal requirement then a request for substantial additional payment per view may dissuade many from pursuing this. I do agree however that this CDMC is not at the level of competence one would like! On the F10 issue this actually is totally divorced from the CPP issue in the regulations and is a requirement on the client/CDMC that it is done as soon and early as possible. As long as the details include you as PC the copy is sufficient for legal purposes. However if the refusal is to put your organisation onto the F10 until CPP approved then the CDMC and the Client are in breach. If the dismissal rule was not set out in the pre construction information it cannot be forced only negotiated. If it was in the PCI then I am afraid it is a client rule and has to be accepted. I too am concerend about review dates and look for a statement within CPP that each assessment will be updated prior to the task commencing. I can readily check that this is done if required to do so. If you need any practical help please shout as I am relatively free to assist now days:-) Bob

Posted By ian_f Robert, I forget to add; would you determine key persons on a project when they have to remove acm roof slates in accordance with asbestos essentials? cheers

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Posted By bluesail461 Hi, As a CDM-C I would not normally ask to see directly the training records at the start of the job, we are there to ensure compliance with the CDM Regs, it is up to the PC to develop and manage the plan according to the risks involved. I would recommend (as a CDM-C) that the measures that are put in place are proportionate to the risks identified within his H&S Plan and based on their assessment of the project and the information that I would provide in the PCI and designer risk assessments. It may be that I would recommend that training records are retained onsite so that the PC can demonstrate through their own audits that only competent persons are undertaking particular tasks. The audits results can be reported at Project Meetings at which I may, or may not, be in attendance dependent on my agreement with the client. I DO insist on site specific information, too many times on smaller jobs I have been given generic H&S Plans which I ask to be made site specific. If on the project in question there is a particularly high risk activity right at the very start, I may request confirmation from the PC that this work is being carried out by competent trained staff and may ask for some evidence of this - but this would be very much a one-off and I would rather be looking at lower-risk alternatives and not use this as any form of stick to beat up the PC with - at the end of the day we have a collective responsibility (Client, PC and CDM-C) to see that the project is completed safely and smoothly. Hope this helps, rant over! jez