Posted By philly boy
Hi all 2nd post for me so please be kind.

A large educational organisation has a stringent PAT policy which requires all electrical equipment being tested and a inventory being kept etc.

The powers that be are now thinking of allowing students to bring in their own laptops which means they can plug into the organisations system, which has raised concerns?

Any views on this would be most welcome.

Regards

Posted By Bob Y
While there is a requirement on employers to maintain electrical in a 'safe' condition, there is NOT a specific duty to carry out a PA test. While you could get the kit inspected and/or tested by a competent person, I am not sure if this is a realistic and reasonable response, especially bearing in mind the portability of the laptop and therefore theoretically the increased risk of damage etc. I wonder if a practical and pragmatic solution would be to provide all students with some basic simple to follow guidelines on inspecting their own lap tops.

Posted By Ron Hunter
Allowing students to use laptops is surely by now a fairly universal practice?
This doesn't necessarily mean that students are allowed to recharge their machines in the learning environment though. I'd be more concerned about the potential for an obstacle course of charger cables and potential for "piggy-back" via use od unauthorised adaptors, to be honest.
Presumably students have free scope within halls of residence already?
Wireless broadband access is also becoming quite common, although I doubt many Organisations will allow hard connection to the IT network!
The resourceful student will of course carry a spare charged battery.............

Posted By Paul Skyrme
Hi,
2nd post only for me too I think!
As I'm sure has been stated many times, PAT is NOT a legal requirement. the legal requirements are for safe work equipment and safe electrical equipment.
The student laptops are not work equipment, however they are being brought into a work environment. The students are NOT employees of the organisation, however, we'll not go into the associated legal areas, duty of care, etc.
As other posters have already suggested, the housekeeping aspects need considering, as does the overloading of fixed electrical systems and the undesirable use of multi way adaptors.
The laptops themselves in a work environment would be subject to PUWER & EAWR, however, unless directly mains powered not PAT.
The power supply and associated mains lead could be subjected to PAT IF that was chosen as the means of compliance with legislation.
Most faults found by PAT testers are visual, damage.
Perhaps posters around the environment illustrating unacceptable conditions.
Noting that the plug top fuse is ONLY designed to protect the supply cord these are often now designed for use with a 13A fuse, thus the issue of incorrect fuse sizes does not arise.
Commonly found faults are, damaged plug tops, cracked, bent or missing pins in plug tops, split leads, cracked charger bodies, chaffed leads, signs of overheating, melted plug tops or chargers, outer sheath of cables not correctly terminated showing inner cores, common on incorrectly fitted rewireable plug tops, rarely seen on the moulded types now normally fitted nto new equipment. Others are obviously incorrectly wired rewirable plug tops, however, again this should not be an issue with moulded versions.
Internal faults in the power supply are possible, however, dangerous faults are rare by design, plus these items are normally double insulated. They also have a simple means of electrical separation, though not fully implemented, thus reducing but NOT eliminating the possibility of electric shock from the secondary side supplying the laptop.
Internal faults in the laptop power system would not relate to PAT testing, there have been recalls on batteries with fire risk, my Lenovo laptop was subject to that.
This type of design or manufacturing fault would NOT be identified no matter how much PAT was done!
Perhaps part of the freshers week could be a slideshow on electrical safety, there are a lot of cartoons and funnies out there that could be used to explain to the students what they can and can't do/have/use.
Heavy handed concequences could be implemented by the establishment if any items were suspect, e.g. confiscation and sending to the works dept for inspection/test/repair/replacement at student expense and/or subsequent prohibition of the use of the equipment?
Hiding after that one...

Hope this helps. Ask more if you wish as this is my area for what it is worth. I can look up the stuff in the COP, if required, but have not yet.

Posted By Peter F.
Paul,

PUWER does not apply as the equipment has not been supplied by the employer for use at work.

Posted By Bob Y
Peter F - I think you will find it does - see para 77 of HSE L22

Posted By Bob Y
I don't disagree with you at all about your post in relation to students, which I accept that this post is about.

But your statement "PUWER does not apply as the equipment has not been supplied by the employer for use at work" is at best ambiguous and at worst factually incorrect. I think that it is important that people don't get the impression that PUWER does not apply to 'kit' if it has not been provided by the employer, as that would be wrong.

Posted By Bob Y
Peter - I conceded above that "I don't disagree with you at all about your post in relation to students, which I accept that this post is about"

Posted By Alan Hoskins
You really need to take a more pragmatic view on this.

First of all, do you have the resources to PAT all your student's items of electrical equipment that they may bring onto campus?

Bear in mind with Laptops, that only the mains lead and power supply need to be tested and since the power suupplies are class II (double insulated) these would only require a visual inspection anyway.

Alan

Posted By stephen smith
Phily, simple stuff always works well when you interface with students, decide on a policy, communicate that policy and then ensure it works.

My advice is to have the laptops and wiring grouped together as it will cut down on misundertandings and offer free or low cost pat tests on the plug & wiring

Question, are these students allowed to use their own laptops + chargers in their dormitories, if they are then perhaps the horse has already bolted

regards stephen

Posted By Alan Hoskins
I stand corrected then Paul...

;-)

Posted By Graham Bullough
Ron Hunter remarked earlier that resourceful students would carry spare batteries. My guess was that this remark was tongue in cheek, considering the cost and perhaps scarce availability of spare batteries for laptops. Also, does anyone know if re-charger devices are commonly available for such batteries? In addition, it may not be particularly easy to open up a laptop battery compartment (usually needs a screwdriver) and swap batteries?

I understand that nowadays many universities and libraries, plus establishments like the National Archives at Kew and the British Museum, have 240v power sockets into which students and visitors are allowed to plug in the transformers leads for their laptops. Furthermore, such sockets are apparently located so as to avoid trailing leads which could pose a trip hazard. Can anyone who uses or is connected with such establishments expand on their arrangements? For example, are the power circuits involved protected by integral RCDs (residual current devices) and/or are users told to bring and use their own portable plug-in type RCDs?

Also, some national train companies routinely provide 240v sockets for laptop users in their express train carriages. Moreover, they highlight this as a facility to attract passengers ("customers" in modern parlance) who wish to use laptops and devices like mobile phone chargers or personal stereo power adapters while on the move. Are there any forum users who work with or for train companies who can tell us if the power circuits for sockets in railway carriages incorporate RCDs or perhaps isolating transformers?

Also, it is likely that very few people have been harmed by the sort of equipment involved, usually double insulated and not normally subject by most users to abuse or damage. In the few cases where harm has occurred I guess that the plugs and flexes have been significantly damaged and that such damage should have been readily apparent to users from a quick visual check.

While on this topic I've just looked at the charger device provided by my employer for my works mobile phone. It's marked as double insulated and is effectively a bulky plug unit with its own pins so has no 240v flex or separate plug. However, it bears a sticker showing that it has been PA tested: Though such testing is not needed for a device of this type, I can only guess that my employer thinks that a blanket policy of having all portable appliances with 240v plugs or integral pins tested is the easiest if not the cheapest.

Posted By Peter F.
As stated by martinw at the start of the thread. Just have a policy that states batteries only, no power packs to be brought in and then enforce it.