Posted By Crim Everybody is entitled to use the public roadway. Road traffic accident to be investigated by police not HSE. Possibly the 4x4 driver should have positioned his vehicle better/more safely on the roadway. Did he cause an obstruction? Probably just an accident.

Posted By TonyB Dangermouse, Thought of asking Penfold? I jest! In response :- 1. Reportable - No. Would be classed a RTA and these are specifically excluded from RIDDOR. 2. Moral - Depends on the morals of the company. Given that this is no longer a theoretical risk I would suggest yes there is a clear moral reason to do something, but it needn't be to move the gate. Requires risk assessment (how about self opening and closing gates?) 3. Yes - if same problem then need a suitable solution. 4. Tricky one. However, don't forget the vehicle was stationary. Therefore, the old lady and all other drivers on the road should not be driving in such a way that they can't safely react to the obstruction. It may have a vehicle this time, but it could have been a person. I would suggest that she would probably have been considered as not driving with due care and attention! It would be different if the gate was on a blind corner or something so the passing traffic didn't have sufficient time to react once the 4x4 was in view (based on the speed limits etc.) However, the provision of a warning sign corrected place could have addressed this - from a legal point of view. Hope it helps. TonyB

Posted By dangermouse raymond thanks for holding back!, not my company im glad to say, questions were not meant to be daft they were my views to another health and safety manager (nothing has been done 3 months after the incident) i wondered if i was being unreasonable expecting actions (i was sure about the RTA bit) just surprised that no one else thought there was a moral issue to at least try to prevent another incident. thanks everyone as always useful comments

Posted By Phil Rose Agreed a strange set of questions! Hear are my strange answers. 1. Yes it is reportable - to the POLICE 2. Moral duty - I would have thought that almost goes without saying. Could I add suitable and sufficient risk assessment and duty to assess risks to 'others' (therefore statutory duty as well - perhaps) 3. ALL gates or ALL of the same companies gates? Sounds like it might be a good idea to me! 4. Of course the company owes her a duty of care - that is a basic legal principle! Should the lady expect to be safe? Now this is where I will disagree with Raymond a bit. I don't think anyone whether on the road, at work, not at work, in their own home etc etc etc can 'expect to be safe'. That is a pretty Utopian idea to my mind and one that I have not entertained for a long time.

Posted By Pete48 1. Is it required to report to the police? http://www.trafficaccide...-in-a-road-accident.html and http://www.dft.gov.uk/co...eporting/Law/default.asp 2. moral duty is to consider what could be done to minimise chance of a recurrence. That could be lots of things more simple and cost effective than engineering. Pull right through onto the highway and park parallel to kerb, hazard warning lights on, then return to close gates for example. 3. any lessons learnt should be considered for any similar situations, why wait for the incident to repeat on another company facility. 4. both parties owe each other a duty of care. Causing an obstruction on the highway is one factor, driving safely is the other. The split would depend on the specific detail of each event.

Posted By Ron Hunter Doh! "do" should read "so". Oh for an edit facility!

Posted By Lee A I agree with the way Pete was going with this, is it necessary to undertake re-engineering solutions to the gate? Is the issue the gate? Does every company, business, household up and down the country start moving all their gates? We don't have the full details with regards to position, distances, parking of other vehicles etc but I'm sure there will be some reference to this scenario in the highway code

Posted By SteveD-M Maybe it would be also worth working with the local casualty reduction unit to help with suggested improvements. I would also try and get hold of the collision investigation detail as it will show the causes and from that suggested areas for improvement.