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Posted By Stephen.Jones
Hi,
Has any one got a PEEP that i could have a look at ? the area i am looking at is a Residential nursing home
Many thanks in anticipation.
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Posted By Chas
The one we use has the following headings;
Name of person
Usual work location
Alternative location(s)
Date plan created
Date plan to be reviewed
PEEP created by
Reason for PEEP
Format PEEP available in (eg braille, large print, tape, sign language etc)
Method of alert in case of emergency (eg alarm system, pager,visual alarm, colleage).
Names and location of fire wardens
Location of agreed assembly point
Agreed evacuation procedure & names of helpers
Dates for practice evacuation.
Hope this helps
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Posted By SBH
I have emailed you direct withy a copy that you can adapt to your needs
SBH
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Posted By Finlay McGuire
Had to do these several years ago, emphasis seems to have moved away from them now, thankful.
Was for residential establishment for adults with learning difficulties.
Sixteen individuals with separate evacuation procedures for each room they may be in, for different times of the day, for different levels of cooperation due to emotional/physical states and etc. a bewildering array of possible responses.
Discussed with safety officer from local Fire & Rescue service who agreed, only one safe procedure
Get out get brigade out stay out till told it is safe to go back.
(KISS)
If it is a residential care facility fire doors must be fitted, with automatic closers if required. So, unless individual who fails to evacuate is in room where fire starts, they will be separated from fire, usually by two fire doors. Each offering at least 30mins protection, loads of time for professional / competent help to arrive.
Safety officer's only observation was that risk assessment indicated raised probability of his fire fighters having to enter building during fire to affect a rescue, so he suggested a sprinkler system be fitted to reduce risk of injury to them......not a popular idea.
Think this is another example of "risk management" by people who do not really understand risk.
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Posted By morph
Hi Finlay,
The government guidance on evacuation plans stresses that the responsible person should have a plan in place to evacuate the building without relying on Fire Service intervention. This is where PEEPs can help.
The principle of delayed evacuation is OK, provided the building is of suitable construction. It may not be possible to guarantee the structural fire separation.
Sprinklers aren't generally popular with the budget holder but they do enhance safety, both for occupants and firefighters.
Mick
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Posted By Finlay McGuire
Hi Mick
think your last two points were the ones the Fire safety Officer was driving home.
I would still argue that PEEP's as they seemed to be being interpreted / implemented within residential care, were both too prescriptive and too complex.
For years we worked with the simple guideline that in the event of a fire the responsibility of workers on duty was to call 999. Then, if they could assist and guide residents from the house without putting themselves at risk they should do so. Always with a reminder that they were going to be more use to everyone, and save more lives, by being alive and conscious outside the building; rather than by being another casualty for the Fire Brigade to deal with.
Notwithstanding all the disclaimers written into policy documents, for most people working in the care sector PEEP's imply that untrained personnel should attempt to re-enter a burning building.
In large group living situations staff are invariably outnumbered by residents. Those who need to be assisted to evacuate, whether due to physical or psychological reasons, frequently need assistance from more than one person. Seems laborious to say it , but once you have evacuated one person you need to go back in for the next.
I'm sure everyone here will agree, fire is fast unpredictable and fatal. Few of us will ever get enough experience of it to be able to predict/control our own actions. To suggest that, on the basis of 4 fire drills a year,
(that people are forewarned of and are not accompanied by the smoke noise and fear factor of a real fire event)
anyone is going to be clear headed enough to decide which of two or three dozen courses of action they should take is at best wishful thinking.
PEEP's do seem the logical response to situations where individuals or small groups are working in environments that may pose particular risks, confined spaces out of range of alarm systems etc. However in these situations it would typically be the many going to the assistance of the few, in residential care settings it would be the reverse.
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Posted By Finlay McGuire
Looking at the example plan above, this seems to focus on employees assisting a disabled colleague to evacuate. This is quite different to the PEEP's that were being suggested in residential care facilities where the focus was on staff evacuating residents.
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Posted By Kevin Brown
The suggestion of fitting a sprinkler system was not a popular idea ... to who? To those faced with paying for it, those residents/care assistants who would get wet in an evacuation? Or the staff or fire fighters faced with the possibly repetitious task of re-entering a burning building to evacuate residents (and possibly staff). There is specific guidance for residential care homes,.You might consider that the current levels of assistance available in your particular situation means that the
evacuation of some people (most likely residents)can't be guaranteed within an acceptable time. You then need to consider some
additional method of ensuring their safety
(e.g. an automatic fire suppression system)such as the (unpopular) sprinkler system.
Also,where people with special needs are accommodated,work in, or use the premises, their needs should, so far as is practicable, be discussed with them. These could require only changes or modifications to existing procedures. In some cases the development of PEEPs may need to be considered and may need to be incorporated into the individuals
care plan.
If you haven't got effective PEEPS or a fire suppression system then you, and your residents, are extremely vulnerable.
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Posted By Finlay McGuire
Pretty well covers my point. Retro fit sprinkler system non starter with fund holders.
Typical residential care setting is as aforementioned, i.e. those requiring assisted evacuation outnumber those available to assist.
Any significant evacuation would almost certainly depend on staff re-entering building, probably more than once.
No one is going to put their name to this without the individuals having pretty intensive training, as well as access to some protective equipment, fire fighting equipment and skills to use it.
Therefore, in these situations PEEP's are virtually meaningless. A paper exercise to make it look as though we're "doing something". "Nuancing" the debate instead of dealing honestly with the fundamentals.
Any risk assessment would have to conclude that in virtually all residential care establishments there is a very much higher than average probability that delayed evacuation will occur. The only meaningful way to reduce the risk, ie can't do much about the probability of event concentrate on limiting the consequences, is fitting sprinkler system. These are now compulsory in new build / refurbished houses in multiple occupancy. However there must still be many older buildings (especially being used as old folks homes) that do not have them, for financial reasons.
In my opinion, that is what should be stated on the risk assessment, yes we should have a sprinkler system but, we are a commercial organisation the shareholders would not wear it --- we are a publicly funded organisation the politicians wont wear it.
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