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#1 Posted : 23 July 2009 14:03:00(UTC)
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Posted By Colin Reeves Do not know if any of you have just listened to this. Subject was about signs on all hot water taps in some premises having a lable saying beware hot water. Judith Hacket was on the programme and spoke very well, saying that signs should be proportionate and that her offices did not do such a silly thing. And then, of course, there were the strange people who were advocating signs everywhere and not being able to see that too many signs are counter-productive. Good programme. Colin
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#2 Posted : 23 July 2009 15:01:00(UTC)
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Posted By Yossarian Didn't hear it myself, but I thought taps already came with colour coded signage and a "H" or "C" as standard? The fact that people ignore this and so extra signage is considered necessary says a lot about the problem of too many signs IMO.
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#3 Posted : 23 July 2009 15:12:00(UTC)
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Posted By Chris Packham Yossarian I think the reason that the H and C signs don't always work is that many people simply do not see them. In our house cold taps are on the right and hot taps on the left, except for one basin where they are the other way around. Surprising how many people simply don't see the signs and are surprised when hot water comes out of the "cold" tap. Keep in mind the popular situation that: "When all else fails read the instructions!" Chris
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#4 Posted : 23 July 2009 15:20:00(UTC)
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Posted By Colin Reeves Jeremy Vine actually passed on an anecdote about the BBC building that he works in. For some reason one hot tap gave out significantly hotter water than all the others. As a result a "careful this water is hot" sign was put on this one hot tap and nobody scalded themselves. Then someone thought "what a good idea" and put signs on all taps. Result - someone got scalded again. OK - best answer would have been to do something physical to reduce the water temperature in that one tap, but in this case too much signage caused the problem. I hate all signs unless absolutely necessary as they are frequently counter productive. I often find that I do not even look at signs any more because I have been "educated" into the belief that they will be trivial. Colin
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#5 Posted : 23 July 2009 15:21:00(UTC)
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Posted By Andrew Borland I work in a care environment where taps used by vulnerable people have TMV valves fitted to them to stop them being burned, but areas within the building that they do not use don't have them, and are fitted with signage to remind staff that these taps are not fitted with TMV's and stop potential problems
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#6 Posted : 23 July 2009 15:25:00(UTC)
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Posted By martinw I remember when on holiday in France once burning my hand, as the taps in the place where I was at were quite worn down due to amount of use. Like an idiot, I went to get the cold water so I chose the C which I could just see - didn't even think about it. No colour coding. C for Chaud or HOT in English. Know better now. Know French better now. Moral - sign would not have helped.
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#7 Posted : 23 July 2009 16:38:00(UTC)
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Posted By Neil R the problem is however, that putting a sign up warning of hot water does not control the hazard of the hot water. You are merely informing them that they will probably burn their hand not stopping it happening. What about reducing the temperature of the water? that way there is no need for a sign.
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#8 Posted : 23 July 2009 16:58:00(UTC)
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Posted By Fred Pratley I feel signs should only be used where appropriate and careful consideration of the wording can have a lasting impression - For example, many years ago I used to go to a public boating lake that was clearly shallow, and so there was a constant temptation to pay your money, jump in and paddle off. On prominent display was a sign stating "You may climb into boats without assistance if you wish, but please be aware that water is very wet!" It certainly made the point to me.......
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#9 Posted : 23 July 2009 19:06:00(UTC)
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Posted By Richard Hammer Surely the hot water sign could be indicating that the Temperature is in excess of 55/ 60c (thermostat is broken or something) , therefore warning persons to be ready for a short sharp shock of hot water when turning it on especially the old or youngsters. If it is just to indicate hot water, then a waste of time.
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#10 Posted : 23 July 2009 19:43:00(UTC)
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Posted By Al.. Mr J Vine, Mr Q Letts and Mrs J Hackitt can be heard at http://www.hse.gov.uk/pr...rd/bbc-radio2-230709.htm Maybe Mr Vine was surprised to find he had Mr Letts and Mrs Hackitt agreeing with each other that all this signage is OTT. You cannot whine if both of your guests are agreeing with each other! Mr Letts tried to introduce an edge to things by suggesting that the HSE had done nothing like enough to discourage practices like this and that it needed to make a lot more noise about the matter. It then got rather anodyne and petered out with J Vine concluding that it was amazing that these signs were everywhere, including the BBC toilets, but they were not, we were assured, in the ladies toilets at HSE HQ. Blame was then laid at the door of health and safety consultants and the like. Probably rightly!
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#11 Posted : 23 July 2009 22:52:00(UTC)
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Posted By Crim I' m in a hotel tonight and tried the bathroom taps when I arrived. The Hot tap provided very hot water as I expected and I then turned on the cold tap to cool down the water. Is this "rocket science" I ask? What is the problem some people have with the most basic things? I would require a sticker on something like a hot water boiler on a site but not a hot water tap!
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#12 Posted : 24 July 2009 07:18:00(UTC)
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Posted By Peter F. Crim, what would you use a 'hot water boiler' on a site for? Making tea? so why a sign? Unless they were making iced tea, then a different sign would be required. On these threads we often talk about ' a common sense approach' , but do we really expect people to use it? We and I don't just mean H&S persons, I mean everyone puts signs up for almost everything. Risk assessments more often than not just state the bleeding obvious i.e. Task Working at Height, hazard Falling from height, death, broken bones, brain damage etc. etc. At present I am dealing with a claim for a slip, The person states even in the solicitors letter that they knew it was slippy as it had been snowing, they could see the snow on the floor, they noticed cars had slid in the car park, they opened the door realised that the car park had not been gritted so needed to be careful, got out of the car and fell I sent off the policy etc, etc and got a letter back asking @did you have a sign to warn people it was possibly slippy' I have produced a sign for the car park that states 'maybe slippy if snow falls or it is very cold, wet if it rains, dry if it is sunny and on all other occasions be careful just in case'
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#13 Posted : 24 July 2009 07:51:00(UTC)
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Posted By Sean Fraser Transpcript of an email I sent to Trevor Sexty, Chief Press Officer at the HSE - "Trevor, Judith missed an excellent opportunity on the Jeremy Vine show this afternoon to go some way to dispel the persistent mythology of the McDonalds Coffee case in the States which is repeatedly put up by typically lazy and uninformed journalists of how the world has gone tort-crazy. For reference, I have added two links, one to a description of the actual case and one to the urban legends site Snopes. It is a shame that Stella Liebeck continues to be pilloried through misrepresentation, as the “facts” are never accurately quoted and the true fact that she was seriously injured by scalding (note, not hot) liquid is conveniently ignored. http://www.caoc.com/CA/i...?event=showPage&pg=facts http://www.snopes.com/legal/lawsuits.asp However, as a Health and Safety professional I am pleased that both the HSE and my professional body IOSH are continuing to put themselves out there to promote the message of sensible risk management and to counter some of the more spurious and indeed malicious journalistic stories that twist and misrepresent the ethos of safety and healthy living. Regards,"
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