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#1 Posted : 29 July 2009 19:48:00(UTC)
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Posted By James Putman I wondered if I could gauge opinion in relation to the following scenario: A family (mother and two severely disabled children) live in a single self contained housing association unit. At least 4 carers (supplied via the NHS) are required to be present 24 hours per day to look after the children, and sleeping accomodation is available for these carers. My understanding is that a fire risk assessment should be carried out in accordance with the RRO as the unit is the carers place of work. Please advise if you have differing opinions on this. Many Thanks, James
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#2 Posted : 29 July 2009 20:09:00(UTC)
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Posted By Phil Rose James - without referring to the RRO, I would say that regardless of what the RRO says, it would make sense to carry one out so that you can satisfy yourself that the fire risks are being properly managed especially as they are sleeping on site.
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#3 Posted : 29 July 2009 20:43:00(UTC)
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Posted By Crim Yes it is a workplace and also a "sleeping" risk. Fire risk assesment required.
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#4 Posted : 30 July 2009 08:57:00(UTC)
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Posted By Eddie Surely the best course of action would be to contact the local fire service for general advice on domestic fire precautions. Given that this is the person's home, who would you expect to undertake the assessment,the housing association as the landlord or the NHS/Council as the employer of the carers? Then of course you have the difficulty of enforcing any findings give that you have classed this as a workplace with sleeping accomodation- installing sprinkler systems, fire doors with appropriate protection, signed fire exits, fire alarm points, suitable width of corridors to assist evacuation, fire drills! Bearing in mind that the risk is probably no greater that that of a normal house and we don't expect British Gas or the carpet fitter to ask a homeowner for a fire risk assessment before they start work. Or do we?
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#5 Posted : 30 July 2009 11:58:00(UTC)
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Posted By marcusblack Hi, Fire Risk Assessment is a must. Don't be fooled into thinking this is just a house and therefore low risk. The vast majority of fatal fires are in domestic premises!! Your employee is at a significantly higher risk than most and you must ensure adequate controls are in place. As has been advised previously, speak to the local fire and rescue service for advice. Mark
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#6 Posted : 30 July 2009 14:14:00(UTC)
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Posted By Peter Tanczos I would assume that it's the duty of the employer (NHS or Housing Association)to ensure that the risk assessment is done.
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#7 Posted : 30 July 2009 14:22:00(UTC)
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Posted By James Putman Hi, Thank you all for your response. The fire authority have been in and issued and enforcement notice (to the housing association), so they clearly think that an FRA is required. However, the Housing Association has queried this (siting the reasons given by Eddie in the thread above). Having given this further thought, I am starting to feel that the FRA should be the responsibility of the NHS/Agency supplying the carers, rather than the Housing Association (at least to satisfy the general duties under the HASWA 74 and MHSWR 99). I have been confused by the applicablity of the RRO 05 as the official guide relating to residential care homes clearly states that it is not applicable to 'single private dwellings where out-posted nursing care is provided'. In view of this, I am still not 100% on what to advise the Housing Association, and certainly not ready to dispute the enforcement notice on their behalf.
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#8 Posted : 30 July 2009 15:01:00(UTC)
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Posted By Bob Y James, I am not sure of the relationship that you have in the scenario presented. We have a number of 'hostels' and similar, some of which are HMO's some are not, some are Private Sector Leases (PSLs) etc etc. We have taken what I think is a sensible and pragmatic approach, and regardless of whether we think that the RRO applies, we have carried out an FRA on all properties, both to secure the safety of the occupants but also with a view to help protect our asset. A pretty limited effort by the HA/NHS or whoever would get it done for the overall benefit of everyone.
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#9 Posted : 30 July 2009 15:19:00(UTC)
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Posted By James Putman Thanks Bob, For clarity, I am a fire risk assessor employed by the Housing Association - usually to carry out assessments within the common parts of the residential properties.
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#10 Posted : 30 July 2009 15:22:00(UTC)
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Posted By martinw James, what area do you work in geographically?
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#11 Posted : 31 July 2009 13:36:00(UTC)
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Posted By DJ James, The answer to the question you have raised is far from simple and something that has been causing me no end of headaches for over two years now. In summary: The situation is that if the premises is a "domestic premises" (irrespective of whether or not it is also a workplace) the chances are that the RRO does not apply. Therefore no risk assessment is required under the RRO. The fact that the RRO does not apply does not remove an employer's duty to protect the health and safety of employees and therefore an assessment would need to be carried out under Regulation 3 MHSWR in respect of employees only. Carrying out a risk assessment is one thing but implementing identified controls is something else, if you (as an employer of care staff) have no control (in respect of maintenance or alterations) of the premises and cannot implement those controls. Section 3 of HSWA (in respect of the tenants) may not apply but Part 1 of the Housing Act probably will and therein may lie the solution. I hope this helps.
georgesmith  
#12 Posted : 23 February 2021 12:52:10(UTC)
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georgesmith

If you want to secure your family, you need some investment plans. And Now the HMCR provides the Private Trust Fund for your family care and after they get this plan you don't need to pay tax. If you want more information about this topic you can get legal advice.

Roundtuit  
#13 Posted : 23 February 2021 12:56:24(UTC)
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Roundtuit

REPORTED - no relevance to the forum

thanks 4 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
Alan Haynes on 23/02/2021(UTC), peter gotch on 23/02/2021(UTC), Alan Haynes on 23/02/2021(UTC), peter gotch on 23/02/2021(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#14 Posted : 23 February 2021 12:56:24(UTC)
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Roundtuit

REPORTED - no relevance to the forum

thanks 4 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
Alan Haynes on 23/02/2021(UTC), peter gotch on 23/02/2021(UTC), Alan Haynes on 23/02/2021(UTC), peter gotch on 23/02/2021(UTC)
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