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Posted By Mart S
Could somebody please explain the main differences between a fire risk assessment prepared by a competent person (under RRFSO) and a fire strategy which has been prepared by an M&E designer (or subcontracted out by the M&E designer.
I'm thinking specifically for either new builds or newly refurbished buildings. For example a new 3 storey office block which has been constructed in accordance with building regs etc will have a fire strategy prepared by either the designer or consultant and should contain things like fire ratings of doors and alarm points etc (please correct me if I'm wrong). So what should the subsequent fire risk assessment contain? Should this draw on the info provided in the strategy and ensure that the general use of the building and things like furniture layout maintain a clear strategy? I'm a bit confused - surely most of what is included in the FRA will already have been covered by the engineer/consultant's strategy?
Thanks in advance
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Posted By tonyf
The FRA sets out how you as a company prpose to continue the work put in place on design, i.e testing and maintaining equipment, emergency plans when occupied and training for staff once the building is occupied, its vital systems are in place and reviewed regularly by the company and the FRA will cover all these topics. New builds are covered by Part B and put in place the building blocks the FRA makes sure this is continued and maintained when occupied. The good thing is you have a solid foundation to work of by having the strategy in place, know look at the legislation of the RRO and you will see many differences not covered by the fire strategy, its up to you competent person or responsible person to bring the two documents into once "living" document, which covers training, log books, maintenance, servicing, evacuations, emergency plans, changes in the future etc..all vital
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Posted By shaun mckeever
Mart, basically you are correct in your interpretation. Where you find a written fire strategy for a building then it would be sensible to use that to assist in producing the fire risk assessment.
In most older buildings it is rare to find a written fire strategy although your question is specifically referring to new or refurbished buildings. Under Reg 16B of the building regs it is now a requirement to provide fire safety information, normally in the form of a written fire strategy, for new builds or major refurbishments, although I believe this is not happening properly yet. A fire strategy produced by an M&E consultant I think would tend to focus on the mechanical and electrical systems rather than the broader requirements of a properly prepared fire strategy. I would normally expect to see a written fire strategy prepared by a specialist consultant although in less complicated buildings these may be prepared by the architect. The fire strategy would normally be prepared at design stage in consultation with the architect and other members of the design team. Where a building design follows the guidance set out in Approved Document B then the fire strategy will be relatively simple. The written strategy will set out to the design team (and to the future owner/ocupiers of the building) the reasons/requirements for the elements of the strategy. This could be the number and width of exits, the smoke control strategy, the type of fire alarm system to be adopted etc. Often the architect will want to design something that cannot be designed strictly in accordance with Approved Document B. One example could be a hotel with an atrium that spans several floors and where all the exits from the bedrooms discharge into the atrium before occupants can reach the safety of the staircase. A fire in the atrium could potentially fill the void and hindeer the escape of the occupants. In such circumstances the fire strategy will set out the requirements for smoke control, limitations on travel distance or expected evacuation times. The architect will then take the strategy and design the building accordingly, the M&E engineers will design their systems accordingly.
The fire risk assessment will look at the building once it is occupied. It will look at the elements of the strategy and assess that they are being maintained properly, that the building is being managed properly, that the risks have not deviated from the initial design strategy.
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Posted By Richard Hammer
Under Regulation 16B and Appendix G of the Approved Document B, fire Safety. Relevant fire safety information shall be given to the 'Responsible Person' at the completion of a project. This fire safety information is relating to the design, construction of the building (passive,active fire protection), fittings and equipment (including what you have stated).
Under BS999 this can form part of the fire safety manual and obviously for complex buildings fire strategies (BS7974, engineering solutions). This information is to the collected from the design stage and through construction.
If you think CDM Regs and the health and safety file, O&M Manuals you are on the right track.
Main issue is that there is no point having all the systems in place if the management of fire safety is wrong during the life span of the building. This is where the Fire Safety Order and FRA's take up the baton.
The risk assessor can pick up the info in the fire safety manual/strategy and assess what type of management is required (use of risk profile in BS9999 is also useful). Also things change in a building, hazards come and go, different people may be put at risk. All of which should be highlighted in the FRA to ensure the correct fire precautions are in place. Changing the layout of a building may compromise the fire integrity and passive protection, all of which will also be highlighted in the FRA. The FRA will review all of this and assist you in the correct management of the building.
One big, big, big problem is that currently not much notice is taken on Regulation 16B. BS9999 is fairly new so will take time for all parties to understand.
In theory the AI and building control should NOT pass a building if Regulation 16B is not in place, this hardly happens currently. If we can get something in line with CDM Regs then great and how that is enforced.
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Posted By Richard Hammer
PAS 911 gives detailed info on fire strategies to give you an understanding of what is required. Obviously the type and level of complexity of building will determine how much you will need and to what level.
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Posted By Mart S
Guys, all a great help - thanks very much.
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Posted By shaun mckeever
Avoid PAS 911 at all costs. It is rubbish!
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Posted By Richard Hammer
Interested in your thoughts on that one. May I ask why you feel PAS911 is a waste of time.
I felt it gave a good insight in the process gathering and incorporating some areas of what is now in BS9999. It is a bit of an idiot guide for people like me who wish not to get involved or need to get involved with BS7974, but would like to adopt some of the methodology to low/medium risk fire strategies I may deal with.
Granted I doubt it would be any use if you not going to be subjected to fire strategies on a ongoing basis, and the cost as with all BS is subject to debate. But if money is no problem and you may want some more insight if you are going to be exposed, then no harm in obtaining a copy.
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Posted By shaun mckeever
Richard
It was a gut reaction. Most of the information contained within the document is fair enough but at £100 when the document is full of colourful tables, pictures and diagrams that seem to be enlarged just to fill pages! And in somecases seems to have wishy washy statements that are almost meaningless. It is a personal view but I just think the money is better spent elsewhere. A little bit of research on the net and a few appropriate questions on forums like this will enable someone to glean the information they need for a basic fire strategy. Anything more complex will (or should) be left to professional fire engineering consultants who ought to understand the requirements of a fire strategy..
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Posted By Shaun Doyle
One very, very simplistic way of looking at the difference between fire startegy & fire risk assessment is that;
Fire strategy deals with the design of the building to satisfy building regs. A fire strategy being a plan of action designed to achieve a particular goal, safety measures against the risk of fire.
This process deals with the hardware side of things, physical systems etc. The ingredient thats missing is the people.
Fire risk assessment takes account of the key features of the building along with all its fire safety packages, hazards & equipment etc. But also takes account of the people, into the equation.
The FRA don't come into play until people occupy. The design and risk may change once people, take up residence. People do things and make changes, which may affect safety. How a building is designed and built does not gaurantee what people will do and safety.
The fire safety management affects the people (and affects the on going balance, along with everything else, systems etc).
The legislation if for life safety. The ingredient thats missing is the people and effectively the difference.
Just a sarcastic view point.
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