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Posted By Paul Slater
Hi all,
I have an issue regarding an activity that has been going on within our indoor snow boarding complex. Up until now we have allowed inverted jumps (upside down) on our kicker ramps as long as the person has previously tried them on our big air bag.
This is something that I do not want to ban but I also want to ensure that it is suitably controled and that the risks are reduced to ALARP. We have the following controls in place
Area supervised by ski patroller
Suitable landing area including run out
Fenced of area from the main run
Ensure that the person has already landed the trick on the big air bag first
Any further advice would be most appreciated. I know a lot of indoor complexes ban such tricks.
Regards
Paul
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Posted By Chris121
Im guessing the use of head protection is already mandatory?
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Posted By Adam Worth
Is first aid equipment advanced and to decent standard?
Does training and number of first aiders reflect this?
I'm thinking control of neck injuries, Collars, spinal boards, oxygen therapy?
Broken limbs - frac packs etc?
I assume there is plenty of ice to hand anyway :)
Just a thought?
Don't ban it, it sounds fun!
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Posted By Graham Bullough
Occasionally I’ve seen competitive snowboarding events broadcast from European ski resorts via satellite TV. The events seem to involve different sorts of features. One common feature (not sure of the correct name for it) comprises a long gradually descending near U shaped snow valley. Each competitor goes down it zig-zagging from side to side and with increasing speed and height up the sides so as to be able to do somersaults and/or double if not triple whatsits as they become airborne at the end of each zig and zag. To a fiftysomething like me content with Nordic ski-ing over wild terrain (i.e. real ski-ing which originated years ago!) the competitive snowboarding looks both kamikaze in nature and also highly skilful. It also makes me wonder how and where those involved learn and practice, and with what sort of injury rate and perhaps even a mortality rate. From recollection, competitors wear helmets but surely these are likely to afford little or no protection against a broken neck for those who fall awkwardly head first at high speed with their body weight on top. Perhaps such falls are rare if the training includes preventing or minimising them, possibly like a cat does when it falls and instinctively turns to land feet first.
There are presumably one or more bodies which represent/govern competitive snowboarding and may be able to advise about relevant training and precautions. Also you mention that other indoor complexes have banned the trick or manoeuvre involved. How about contacting them to get some idea as the reason/s for their bans? Their bans might simply stem from a reaction that it just looks too dangerous or perhaps they’ve already done some homework and decided that they can’t provide the necessary space and/or accept the risk in relation to the activity’s known accident record.
Apologies if I’ve wholly misunderstood your posting and barked up the wrong tree. If not, I hope these comments help and perhaps that any snowboarders reading this thread can give better responses.
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Posted By RIL
Graham...the U shaped downhill bit is called a halfpipe..!
Paul, just to add my two cents...I Snowboard to a good level and im in Safety, though not in the leisure industry.
I would think that one of the previous posters has it about right....mandatory safety helmets, supervision, adequate first aider/s on duty, relevant equipment for treatment if required, access for emergency services etc. Also, as much as I dislike even mentioning them, what do your insurers have to say?
I'm firmly of the opinion that if you injure yourself doing a hobby then tough...but
In my experience as a Snowboarder, most riders tend to know their limits so I really wouldnt expect incompetents to be trying such things unless they know what they're doing..
I wonder if you've tried speaking with the British Snowboard Association about the subject also? They may be able to offer some advice.
Hope thats of some help to you...
Rich
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Posted By Paul Slater
Hi Guys,
Thanks for all your comments, all very much appreciated. In terms of first aid, we have very good facilities all of which have been highlighted in a response above. We also have 2 fully qualified nurses who are based within the Ski slope at all times.
Crash helmets are also mandatory and the area is supervised at all times. I will try contacting the British Snowboard Association Rich and see if they can provide me with any more information.
Thanks again
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Posted By Graham Bullough
Thanks, Rich, for enlightening us about the term "halfpipes". I can't resist commenting that some forum users might be "guttered" at this information. Halfpipes seem to be very large features and presumably need to be constructed to fairly accurate dimensions. Out of curiosity are they permanent features at ski resorts, perhaps made of concrete and/or dug out of slopes, which are lined each winter with natural or artificially generated snow?
As for my earlier quip about when Nordic ski-ing originated, my proof reading was a bit lax. I meant to say that it originated some several thousand years ago. This dating is based on ancient rock carvings and analyses of early primitive skis discovered in Scandinavia and Siberia, etc. Some reports even suggest that primitive skis were first used about 6000 years ago. Whenever it was, it was somewhat earlier than the 1960s origin of snowboards as we know them. During the early days of snowboarding some snooty skiers opined that it was just a temporary fad. However, it came to be well established as one of an increasing number of ways of enjoying snow. Take your pick!
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Posted By RIL
Graham - Pipes, as they are normally referred to are constructed using a piste basher and are generally just super hard packed snow, read: ice with a thin covering of snow, shaped to the form you see. A lot of the larger US, Canadian and European resorts have them in situ and they normally form part of a 'fun park' - an area with kickers (ramps) and rails of various sizes...great fun!!
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Posted By andymak
I would say in addition to the usual crash lid and any pads upper body armour would be recommended for this activity.
Some really good stuff is available at not a lot of money and could be hired out by the company. These are usually based around a mesh and have either hard shell or high impact rsistant foam inserts.
I recommend this after my personal experiences kite boarding, buggying and snow kiting, the impacts whilst not dramatic are hard and can crunch ribs etc. I also inlcude this in risk assessments I do for skate and kite clubs.
I would also check the degree of seperation from other users as untethered boards can fly a fair distance, and look at how many users are in the area at any one time.
Hope this helps!
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Posted By Peter MacDonald
Hi
As a new snowboarder on level one (with failed "falling leaf" bruises to proove it) I can think of one thing that you could add to your procedures.
As a newbie to the sport I'm restricted as to when and what I can do on the slope and can only move on to other things as my grade/level increases which is recorded on my "passport".
I think adding to your procedures that a boarder must be on a certain grade before attempting an inverted jump would help proove to any investigating body that you were controlling use of the jump based on competence. (This coming from someone who dispairs at the CSCS scheme too, it's like totally bogus)
Any hows, later dudes
Pete
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Posted By andymak
As a secondary thought have you read HSE leaflet INDG371 (Health and Safety in Ski slope operations)?
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Posted By Donna
Paul,
Have you been in touch with other indoor snow slopes (Xscapes, Chillfactore, Hemel Hempstead) to see why they ban the jumps? if they do that is. Maybe they can give you an insight into the discussion for and against banning them.
Having seen the airbag you mentioned (and yes been far too chicken to try it) I can see why you would allow the jumps on there however most snowboarders who will want to do the 360's will be pretty experienced and know what they are doing.
As far as i am aware you are not allowed to use any "trick" equipment etc at indoor slopes without wearing a helmet although I have known this rule to be flauted on a number of occassions (having been an offender myself until i knocked myself out).
I would envisage that the majority of people that will use the slope (location dependent) to be practicing these kind of tricks wil be student groups (been in that group too). Maybe its worth discussing with the actual users how they feel. After all if they are restricted a lot on the slopes they will either go elsewhere or not at all and wait until the outdoor season.
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Posted By Paul Slater
Thanks to everyone for the comments, all very much appreciated.
Regards
Paul
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