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#1 Posted : 21 August 2009 08:23:00(UTC)
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Posted By Dar1 Dear All Your views would be welcome on the following. A school attended by my nephew undertakes object handling sessions periodically. For some reason they give children latex gloves to do this despite there being no risk of exposure to blood or other bodily fluids from the objects. I realise infrequent use is not likely to pose a high risk but personally feel this is another example of latex being used inappropriately when there are other alternatives. As to what quality the gloves being issued are (i.e. whether they are powder free and low protein, well that's likely to be another issue!) My other concern is that often teachers might not know whether a child is suceptible to an allergic reaction or not. Your thoughts on the appropriateness of this would be appreciated please, particualrly in light of HSE guidance that latex gloves should only be worn where there is a risk of infection. Regards
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#2 Posted : 21 August 2009 10:48:00(UTC)
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Posted By andymak I would query why gloves are used at all, surely the aim of object handling is so the textures and tactile properties of what is being handled can be fully experienced, sounds a bit conkers bonkers to me! If they must use gloves why not non-latex such as are used in the catering industry.
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#3 Posted : 21 August 2009 10:57:00(UTC)
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Posted By Dar1 Thanks Andy, My understanding is that it's more from an object preservation point of view. You've echoed my thoughts re the latex alternatives though. Regards
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#4 Posted : 21 August 2009 14:53:00(UTC)
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Posted By Graham Bullough Mention of pupils handling objects reminds me of an inspection visit I paid during my HSE days to a posh boarding school establishment in a rural setting. When I asked about the purpose of a large fridge seen in the science department, it was opened to reveal inside a variety of dead animals and birds in plastic bags destined to be preserved and stuffed by members of the school taxidermy club! It was a somewhat unusual revelation and prompted a discussion about precautions regarding infections and work with preserving chemicals. After some 25 years I can’t recall the detail but guess that the information given to me seemed okay and not greatly different from precautions for embalmers employed by funeral directors. If the school also had a cadet corps or rifle club perhaps, just perhaps, it might have been able to assist the taxidermy club to acquire creatures. However, I decided not to ask about this or even the possibility that some pupils might have the option of preserving deceased family pets for posterity. Forum users with a quirky sense of humour may wish to imagine the answers given to relatives and friends after asking club members what they enjoyed doing in their spare time at school!
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#5 Posted : 21 August 2009 17:18:00(UTC)
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Posted By Chris Packham Firstly, with regard to the use of gloves, if these are to protect the items being handled, and provided no chemicals are involved, then almost any glove will do. I would suggest that for this purpose the cheap, single-use vinyl gloves used in catering would be perfectly adequate. As regards the latex issue, the Royal College of Physicians in their evidence based study on this topic could not find any new cases of latex sensitisation or allergy to unpowdered, low free protein, natural rubber latex gloves. They are widely used in the German state hospitals and, in the words of one of their experts, "latex allergy is history". Chris
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#6 Posted : 21 August 2009 23:43:00(UTC)
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Posted By Toe Chris, Why do the HSE not recognise these studies? I'm with you on this one Chris and think there is a lot of scaremongering about the use of latex. Dar1, Latex gloves are good at controlling infection as you have stated, they are also good at giving dexterity to the users, and you will find that because of this they are widely used, for example maintenance workers and vehicle mechanics use them all the time.
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#7 Posted : 22 August 2009 08:04:00(UTC)
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Posted By Chris Packham Toe You have to ask the HSE that question. I have been trying for some years to get them to review their approach to latex, but have had no success up to now. Chris
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#8 Posted : 22 August 2009 17:52:00(UTC)
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Posted By Chris Packham Toe Latex is actually not the right material for vehicle mechanics. The oils, fuels, brake fluids, etc. will quickly permeate NRL gloves, particularly the thin, single-use gloves, where, for example, petrol will permeate in seconds. Nitrile is somewhat better, but even the thin nitrile gloves will not protect against petrol for very long. Selection of the correct glove is much more complicated than many realise, since factors such as permeation, any concomittant degradation, temperature, flexing, abrasion, etc. must all be accounted for. Chris
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#9 Posted : 22 August 2009 22:18:00(UTC)
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Posted By D H Dar - have you asked the school about it? And what age are the children? Personally, I see this as a good thing that the school are introducing the thinking that protection may be required at times - it should be followed with a wee talk as to why we need to protect. As we get older, then we can decipher the control needs and standards. However, A lot of adults still do not understand the type of protection, exposure etc - I am sure Chris P will back me on that one. Speak to the school - find out why and what follow up they are offering. Let us know their answer? Dave
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#10 Posted : 23 August 2009 09:13:00(UTC)
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Posted By Chris Packham Dave I agree with your comment about people understanding about protection. In an occupational setting it is actually quite usual to find that even in a large employer the selection and use of gloves is haphazard, with no really objective system which reflects the complexity of this aspect of health and safety. I have frequently found glove recommendations from suppliers that do not stand up to objective examination. Chris
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#11 Posted : 24 August 2009 10:02:00(UTC)
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Posted By Graham Bullough If it's the items being handled which need protection, e.g. against contact with skin oils, and not the skins of the pupils and staff doing the handling, why not use cotton gloves? Such gloves are commonly seen used by people handling old manuscripts and artefacts on TV documentaries about genealogy investigations and archeology. Whatever gloves are being used, I would hope that the teacher/s involved discussed their purpose with pupils rather than simply issue them and tell pupils to put them on. The same should apply to any measure taken to protect pupils and/or items they're studying.
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#12 Posted : 24 August 2009 11:34:00(UTC)
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Posted By Della Pearlman I would agree with Graham that cotton gloves might be preferable, both from the preservation point of view, and from the allergy issue - especially if staff don't know who is likely to be allergic. From my own experience, my daughter had an anaphaletic shock in hospital from the use of blue nitrile gloves - I don't know who was more shocked, the patient or the staff! (We hadn't known about that allergy and she is OK with latex.)
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#13 Posted : 24 August 2009 13:39:00(UTC)
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Posted By Chris Packham Della I would be very interested to know more about your daughter's reaction to nitrile gloves. I know of two case reports of similar events and am trying to monitor this rather worrying development. Regards Chris Packham
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#14 Posted : 24 August 2009 14:08:00(UTC)
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Posted By Della Pearlman No problem - I will email you direct, rather than bore people with medical details.
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