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Posted By Cas
Hello
Could anyone tell me how much petrol is acceptable for an employee to carry in a vehicle at any one time?
Is there a legal limit?
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Posted By Ron Hunter
Over and above the fuel tank of the vehicle, or the petrol in any other fuel tank(s) supplying any other internal combustion equipment being carried or towed (e.g stihl saw, strimmer, mower etc.) then the limit should be 2 approved containers. These can be 5 or 10 litres.
A reputable Retail Petrol Filling Station should challenge you if you tried to fill more than that - although the observations skills at self-service stations aren't always that great!
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Posted By Bob Youel
a van with no officially fitted partition wall between the driver and the fuel is not acceptable and if my memory serves me right the amount is now above the 2 gallons that was the old standard - but others I am sure will update us
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Posted By garyh
Depending on the amount you may need to consider the carriage of dangerous goods regs - orange panels and all.
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Posted By Jon Dawson09
I used to work for a company who collected petrol in an open tipper truck using army-type 20 litre metal jerry cans, and the garage had no qualms about supplying us a maximum of 200 litres ie 10 cans at a time. Driver had no special training, nor any marks on the vehicle.
I checked the regs and it fell within the 333-litre (weird figure!)allowed by CDG at the time, although this may have changed now.
Mind you, heaven forbid if he was in an accident...
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Posted By Ron Hunter
Whilst aware of the info on HSE website, I tend to stick to the practical advice above.
I am surprised that the HSE have thusfar not taken the opportunity to revoke and incorporate elsewhere Legislation going back to 1928 & 1929 - the detail of which to me seems to contradict CDGR requirements. These (incorporated) Acts & Regulations have been much modified over the years and it is now extremely difficult to determine the exact wording of these(still) current Statutes.
Any pointers welcomed!
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Posted By Pez Hargreaves
You could carry 333 litres of petrol without incurring to many problems, over this amount the petrol will be in scope of the regulations and the driver would have to hold a vocational training certificate, instructions in writing, vehicle equipment as per the Instructions in writing.
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Posted By Ron Hunter
Filling 33 x 10 litre containers on a retail forecourt is not without risk - not least perhaps due to the ire of those queueing behind you at the pumps! Things can become complicated too when the 'single transaction limit' on the dispenser is reached. Filling and carrying that quantity implies storage issues also.
I would also question the wisdom of carrying such quantity in an enclosed vehicle. Security also an issue then on an open vehicle or trailer.
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Posted By Ron Hunter
I guess you meant 20 litres, MP?
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Posted By MP
no, I meant 60 litres
3 by 20 litre cans
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Posted By Ron Hunter
Do you have a reference for that figure, MP?
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Posted By Pez Hargreaves
Put the petrol in 3 litre containers in a combination package you could carry as much as you wanted!!!
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Posted By Larry
My previous employer (Muppet Alpha) saw nothing wrong the facilities manager (Muppet Bravo) going down to the local petrol station and filling 20x20L Jerry cans with lead free. Then he would traveled back in his car with all the fuel on board. I say would because a swift call to head office halted that little fiasco.
To transport so much fuel in cans is just down right irresponsible.
Reason 1. What about the risk of pollution?
Reason 2. When a liquid flows (including water and fuel) static electricity is generated. If the fuel can is on the ground it will earth itself. Trouble is, if the fuel can is left in the car (to avoid manual handling) then it may not be able to bond with the car and thus earth itself. The more fuel that flows (especially 400L in my case), the more static generated. Nice.....
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Posted By Pez Hargreaves
Not sure if the original thread made any reference to filling jerry cans at the petrol pump, just asked what the legal limit is. As mentioned the definitive answer is: if the petrol is for domestic use i.e leisure sporting activities the amount is 60 Litres per receptacle and 240 Litres per transport unit (vehicle) as long as measures have been taken to prevent leakage in normal conditions of carriage, i.e secure, stored upright etc.
Above this then ADR regulations will come into force.
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Posted By Ron Hunter
Defined where please?
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Posted By Pez Hargreaves
Ron,
You can find the info in ADR 2009 Volume 1 Chapter 1.1.3 Exemptions
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Posted By Larry
If its a definitive answer Pez, could you please explain why your second last and third last posts above seem to contradict each other?
"Put the petrol in 3 litre (3L, don't you mean 5L) containers in a combination package you could carry as much as you wanted"
"the amount is 60 Litres per receptacle and 240 Litres per transport unit. Above this then ADR regulations will come into force".
Sorry I must be missing something?
And, IMO there is nothing wrong with those that have experience and knowledge on a subject from adding salient points to a discussion. EVERDAY is a skule day.
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Posted By Pez Hargreaves
Larry, the original post by cas was not clear as to what sort of vehicle the employee was using so I was trying to throw it open a bit. All I have written is correct and if any DGSA is reading this will agree (hopefully). It comes down to whether the petrol is for your own use i.e pleasure sporting activities then the 60 litre receptacle 240 litre transport unit is correct. If the petrol is being transported commercially then then the 333 litres comes into effect both these are referenced in ADR.
With regards to the reference on carryig as much as you want 3 Litres in combination package this is a reference to Limited Quantities, so as long as the combination package is not over 30 kg you could carry as much as you wanted.
Larry I have looked at this as a DGSA point of view so have more than likely gone into it far to deeply.
Cas was only probably looking at this from a private point of view, but was not sure so gave a more detailed answer.
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Posted By Ron Hunter
Pez, thanks for that. As I see things we have the ADR,the EU Dangerous Goods Directive, our carraige Regs, some fairly obscure and some fairly current Regulations and other Acts relating to the carrying, keeping and container design of petrol in containers, including the basis of an enforcable framework of conditions for Retail Petrol Filling Stations- all adopted under the HASAWA.
Issues for me then are:
(a) Where does one buy a 60 litre container meeting the requirements of a Retail Petrol Filling Station's Conditions of Licence?
(b) Is (a)really only a silly question as these Conditions of Licence stipulate a max. volume of 20 litres (I think - it used to be 10 litres). Note that the HSE, within their own web pages, when discussing CDGR and ADR, private vehicle carraige and other exemptions state:
"Note that other legislation may limit carriage of petrol etc".
(c) Does the term "receptacle" in the ADR exemptions you mention perhaps include (or perhaps more properly, refer to) the demountable fuel tanks of some leisure craft (usually a boat) towed by a member of the public, and the filling of that tank ( a "refillable receptacle") at a PFS?
All in all, I think this is an area of confusing (conflicting?) Legislation (see also my other posts above) and one unlikely ever to be tested by the Courts.
On a lighter note, whereas I might be able to carry a 60 litre container of petrol, I wouldn't be able to carry it too far, and I certainly wouldn't fancy trying to pour it into the lawnmower tank!
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Posted By Larry
Cool. Thanks Pez.
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