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Posted By RichardC1973
I have been looking at various providers of certificated asbestos awareness training for our engineers. Those that have replied have stated that the certificates, in accordance with HSE, are only valid for a year and the engineers have to embark on the same (or revised) training next year. I have checked the Regulations and all that is requires is regular training. Is there a need for annual training or is this just another money-making exercise for the training organisations?
Thanks
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Posted By Jon Dawson09
Richard
The short answer is that it is a moneymaking exercise engendered by the general paranoia over asbestos. Having said that, the Regs do say 'anyone likely to be exposed to asbestos' must receive 'regular' awareness training, so that includes anybody who may set foot on a site that existed say, pre-1990. We have had courses ranging from 1/2 day for 25 blokes (quite cost-effective) to 1 day for a max of 8 (expensive)with basically the same content, and all renewable in one year. I'm afraid we're in the hands of the training companies on this one.
I would have thought for general operatives with minimal exposure risk, every 2 years would be plenty.
Jon
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Posted By FAH
Hi Richard
I am of the opinion that much of what Jon Dawson says is unfortunately true!
I'm assuming that you're UK based?
I note that you are considering "certificated" "awareness" training for engineers; although you don't identify what sort of engineers nor the type of work to be undertaken.
First, I would suggest that you ought to be looking for specific training that is directly related to what your engineers do & the conditions under which they do it. This could mean that all that is required is a fairly low-level of competence for the engineers in this topic - possibly half day!. Standard "off-the-shelf" courses are generally an expensive waste of money in any topic! You should be doing a "training needs analysis" to determine what the training must include anyway.
Second, I'm not aware of any dictat from the HSE that says that awareness training must, or even should, be annual; or even "certificated" [whatever that is considered to mean]. Possibly you mean "accredited by a recognised body to a nationally defined standard"?
Frank Hallett
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Posted By Jo O
Hi,
I looked into this also and the ACoP L143 states certificates should have a validity of no more than 1 year and also states that refresher training should be given at least every year and should be appropriate to the role undertaken.
Hope this helps
Thanks
Jo
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Posted By Robert K Lewis
The requirements do not however mean that the same course of the same length has to be repeated - contact me separately and I am happy to discuss individual needs which can be tailored to suit the skills and knowledge of your own staff.
Bob
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Posted By Dave Wilson
As a company who deliver this and are members of UKATA, Asbestos Awareness (AA) training certificates 'should not have an expiry date' and UKATA members should not do this..
It has to be repeated every year however the ACoP Does say that for AA this can be done as part of general H&S training i.e a session / toolbox talk.
See para 147
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Posted By graeme12345
If it is unlicensed work why not get loads of info together from the HSE site and undertake your own training, all the requirements are listed in the Asbestos Regs.
For licensed work i would seek external trainers, this is the name and number i use for licensed work.
United Kingdom Asbestos Trainers Association
01246-824-437
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Posted By Grahame
Richard
As you have probably become aware during your research, there is no statutory requirement to use an asbestos training provider who is certificated, accredited or registered in any way. What the HSE requires (as should the client) is that the trainer be COMPETENT. Although membership of UKATA or IATP does not guarantee that you will get a wickedly good training course (or trainer), it does indicate that the provider has been independently audited to confirm that the training meets the requirements of Regulation 10.
I have been doing this sort of training for 15 years and, until recent UKATA membership, have never put an expiry date on certificates - in the naive hope that I did such a good job the delegates would remember it all for the rest of their lives.:). When I contacted UKATA for guidance on this I was advised that certificates should have a one year expiry date.
In reality, if you question guys who had training 2 or three years ago, you find that on average they have retained perhaps 30% of what was covered in the course.
Current UKATA guidelines are that a full asbestos awareness course should be carried out every other year and a certificate issued valid for one year. The individual should receive refresher training in the second year, which may part of a larger health and safety training session, a toolbox talk etc. and need not be conducted by an asbestos specialist trainer.
On our certificates we use phrasing along the lines of 'Certificate valid for a period of one year from date of training or for two years when supported by evidence of appropriate refresher training'.
This at least makes me feel a little less like I'm trying to extort cash from folk on an annual basis! (see reply from Richard)
Hope this helps
Grahame
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Posted By Robert K Lewis
Richard
I will depart a little from Graham here as I think that where the contact with asbestos is regular I would anticipate only short annual updates. Where contact is less frequent then the annual training needs to be a little more extensive but certainly not the 1/2 day often quoted. It really does depend on your assessment of the precise needs and the level of knowledge they have retained.
Bob
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