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Posted By Jim999
A Civil Servant working for an Agency which is part of the Ministry of Defence.
The work is on a 12 hour shift pattern of two day shifts 0700 – 1900 then two night shifts 1900 – 0700. Occasionally the work involves lone working off site 0700 - 1730 although entitled to one and a half hour meal break this is seldom offered and has to be requested. At 1730 the employee has to take TOIL or Annual leave from their own allowance to make up their conditioned hours. If there is a shortage of manpower and they are unable to be given a meal break they are given a missed meal break allowance (however this has been recently stopped due to cost saving) however they are still deducted one and a half hours TOIL.
If the employee does not have any TOIL or Annual leave or more often due to operational requirements they are required to travel back to the main site (up to 5 miles) in their own vehicle to finish their conditioned hours.
The Management are well aware of their obligations both under the HASWA and the WTR however they claim that the employee cannot be given time off in lieu for a missed meal break as this would be the same as taking a meal break at the end of the working day and this is supposedly prohibited.
Your thoughts please.
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Posted By Bob Youel
sily question I suppose but: Has HR and H&S been informed?
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Posted By Jim999
Thanks for a quick response,
Not yet,
I am not a Safety Officer/Rep I am a Contact Officer and have been approached on this as part of a possible grievance complaint and was seeking independent thoughts on this to try and find a consensus of opinion.
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Posted By Bob Youel
In normal circumstances all staff are allowed a meal break after 6 hours work - its up to the worker to stand up for themselves as its also a common sense issue
get hold of HR & H&S
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Posted By David Ritchie Check the ACAS website for their advice on working time and breaks etc at http://www.acas.org.uk. Best Regards David Ritchie
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Posted By Jim999
Many thanks,
As I am responsible too HR, we think we know what should be done however this problem seems to have been around for many years whereby it has become normal practice.
The Union Reps didn’t want to do anything as their members might lose money, nor do management and in particular those with H&S responsibilities as it is convenient for the organisation of manpower. There may also be an element of coercion and peer pressure and the real problem might well be one of bullying and harassment hence my involvement and why I am interested in H&S specialists views.
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Posted By Peter Tanczos
Deduction of TOIL or annual leave part is definitely illegal. You are still working for the company during the travelling to & from your normal place of work to & from the off site location. Companies can insist that you start & end the day at your normal place of work, but most are flexible about this. HMRC would be interested in the off site travel arrangements as it's likely that there are some breaches of company travel expenses rules. There must also be 11hours minimum break between the change from night to day and vice versa. There should also be a health assessment for changes in shifts. Rest periods are minimum of 20 mins for shifts more than 6 hours and persons under 18 are entitled to 30 mins for 4 1/2 hours.
There's 2 problems to this though, the excemption for Defense and Civil Protection Services might apply to that particular Civil Servant and the Working Time regulations don't define what a 'shift worker' is although the shift patterns you described do qualify as Night Working which is defined. (Shift workers are exempted from daily & weekly rest periods). Both of these would require a ruling by ACAS based on the workers specific circumstances. An ACAS judgement will look at 'custom' so the stopping of the missed meal allowance is likely to go against the company (certainly without any sort of collective agreement) and the fact that if they're not taking breaks then they should be 'opting out' of WTR.
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Posted By Jim999
Thank you Peter
You have confirmed our take on this, The question of travel expenses may possibly be an issue as the employees do not get offered any, as is the issue of travelling whilst on duty in a private vehicle which would require Business use insurance. The Agency is the MDPGA and the employee is a Civilian Guard employed on Security detail. Would this have an impact on the meal break allowance which is part of an overall workplace agreement with the Trades Unions.
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Posted By Allybill
Would the part of the UK the person works have any impact, English and Scottish legislation may differ? What about the type of roads they travel on there may be safety issues on a quiet country lane as opposed to a motorway.
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