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#1 Posted : 12 October 2009 10:19:00(UTC)
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Posted By clairel I was asked a question the other idea and to be honest I didn't have an answer. So I wondered what others thoughts were. It's accepted that final emergency exit doors should open outwards in the dierction of travel. So, considering that much of the time the final exit will in fact be the front entrance, why do most front entrance doors open inwards, even on new builds?
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#2 Posted : 12 October 2009 10:26:00(UTC)
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Posted By John Packer Hi Claire, I think you're confusing final exits with primary exits. Primary exits being those whose sole purpose is as a way out of the building in the event of a fire as opposed to secondary exits (which the main door in and out of a building would be)that can also be used in the event of a fire
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#3 Posted : 12 October 2009 10:59:00(UTC)
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Posted By clairel No I'm not confuding the two. What I'm saying is that for mnay premises the entrance is the only way in and out, even in emergency. So why doesn't the same standard apply (ie, the same risks of an inward door apply)?
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#4 Posted : 12 October 2009 11:17:00(UTC)
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Posted By John Packer That would be dependant on the level of risk (sorry). If its small concrete building used to store wet fish in which only 1 or 2 people frequent occasionally then the risk would be so low that the direction of the doors is unlikely to be an issue (IMHO). I can honestly say that I have never risk assessed a building with only one door (yet as I typed that I've just realised I have to do one on a caravan). Would I be correct in assuming that it has a very low occupancy?
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#5 Posted : 12 October 2009 11:24:00(UTC)
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Posted By Crim I hate to say it but the fire risk assessment should provide your answer? FSRRO states final exit doors should normally open in the direction of travel. Your assessment coupled with fire drills and practice evacuation should lead you to decide on direction of travel. If during a fire drill there are difficulties with the door opening in then alter the direction of opening. Other considerations are degree of risk and number of occupants i.e. low risk and small number of occupants = no problem, whearas high risk and large number of people = potential for trouble. In buildings with only one entrance/exit they are possibly small units with small travel distance to the main and only exit. I am surprised however that you say even new builds have only one entrance/exit?
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#6 Posted : 12 October 2009 11:27:00(UTC)
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Posted By Crim I was writing my response as John posted his. I think we are in agreement however. Re the caravan - most nowadays have two doors, one each end on the same side. If it has only one door it will probably be a tourer and, yes, low occupancy with small travel distance.
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#7 Posted : 12 October 2009 11:30:00(UTC)
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Posted By SBH Low risks Low occupancy levels Low travel distances Time taken to alert and evacuate is measured in seconds Therefore in my opinion one exit is generally OK
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#8 Posted : 12 October 2009 11:35:00(UTC)
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Posted By John Packer Hi Crim, It's an ex mobile site office now being used as an incident support unit so effectively it's a shed on an axle.
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#9 Posted : 12 October 2009 12:06:00(UTC)
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Posted By GT Clairel, It may be that if the entrance doors are going to be used to exit the premises it will be at a time of passive use, and not active emergency where panic ensues and people pressure are applied. Regards GT
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#10 Posted : 12 October 2009 12:11:00(UTC)
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Posted By clairel Sorry to be a pain but no one is yet answering my question. I'm sure you're all politicians at heart! ;-) Why do front entrances open inwards in general even when used as a fire exit? This isn't specific for one premises that I work in (I act as a consultant). I know the whole fire risk assessment argument. I am saying a client asked me why I was saying that fire exits need to open in the direction of travel when the front entrance, which is used as a fire entrance, doesn't. I didn't have the answer. It got me thinking, why do front entrances open inwards even though they are frequently used as fire exits? Surely the same principle should apply? Anyone?
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#11 Posted : 12 October 2009 12:45:00(UTC)
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Posted By D. Hilton The individual(s) responsible for the design either, Considered the opening out in the direction of escape was not reasonably practicable. or Did not correctly interpret or apply the requirements as set out in TGDB/ AD B.
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#12 Posted : 12 October 2009 12:46:00(UTC)
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Posted By Alan Haynes Clairel asks "Why do front entrances open inwards in general even when used as a fire exit?" Possibly a hangover from he good old days when doors of buildings often opened directly onto the pavement, so inward openig created less of a hazard to the public. Also, in 'designer speak' - a building seem 'friendlier' if you only have to push the door open, rather than pulling it open
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#13 Posted : 12 October 2009 12:46:00(UTC)
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Posted By A Campbell Not sure as to complience with any building ruules, although is mainly uniformal for this country as not with some other countries as standard... possible historic reasoning may include... 1. Wind [Slamming shut or against external reveals causing damage] 2. Security [Not so easy to gemmy off at the hinges] 3. Opening into the face of an unsuspecting caller about to knock the door [Though this could be seen as an advantage if they are bailiffs]
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#14 Posted : 12 October 2009 12:52:00(UTC)
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Posted By Crim Claire, you are asking people that know the fsrro and all the good reasons for opening outwards, and you are not getting what you want. I suggest you now, First find a building with only one door, and it opens in, Second, find out who designed the door to open that way, Third, ask that person why? I for one will be interested in the answer.
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#15 Posted : 12 October 2009 13:03:00(UTC)
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Posted By grim72 I think the reasons giving would make sense - the risk of someone opening a door into your face is more likely than a problem of opening a door during a fire exit? Another one to throw into the mix might be DDA regs? I'm fairly sure that a door opening inwards would be more beneficial to someone in a wheelchair?
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#16 Posted : 12 October 2009 13:05:00(UTC)
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Posted By Lilian McCartney Hi Claire, I've often wondered that as well. I reckon it must be a mix of tradition, not opening into somebody in street etc. lilian
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#17 Posted : 12 October 2009 13:12:00(UTC)
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Posted By John Packer Just had a thought. If the building was originally built as a domestic dwelling it would have an inward opening door (visions of village post-offices spring to mind) and if they have seperated from the domestic part of the building it would explain why there was only one door. In fact my local post office fitted that bill (until they closed it).
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#18 Posted : 13 October 2009 05:57:00(UTC)
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Posted By GT Clairel, Consider all the doors you use in buildings in every day life opening in the opposite direction. What would life be like. ?? Every office door opening outward. However, on vehicles they rarely open inward. GT
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#19 Posted : 16 October 2009 15:24:00(UTC)
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Posted By Simon Marshall maybe its me..but most sites i visit, which include modern type offices up and down the uk have main doors which actually swing both ways...
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#20 Posted : 16 October 2009 15:30:00(UTC)
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Posted By Crim Quite a few automatic sliding doors in use now, power fails they are simply puled apart.
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