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Posted By Kevin Heywood
I haven't read it and have no intention of doing so, but Alan Pearce has probably written a work of fiction. He has published a book called It's Health and Safety Gone Mad!: 1001 Crazy "Safety Crimes". Jumping on the media bandwagon of creating a negative health & safety culture by publicising people using health and safety for the wrong reasons. Most of the things in this book have probably been banned under the guise of "health and safety" using it as an excuse to stop projects and initiatives or to save money. Health and safety law should be interpreted properly and used for sensible risk management that saves lives when the risks are real. For someone who has worked in a high risk environment for the BBC in Afghanistan, Pearce should know better.
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Posted By Larry
Wow wee, I just googled it.
It looks intriguing, so I've just asked Mrs Larry to see if Santa can get me one.
I'll pour a brandy, chill out, put the feed up, put the "oh my gosh I'm over 45 and need reading glasses" on and see if it makes me laugh. If it does who cares. "Mr C" of Top Gear fame and many others have been poking fun at us for so long, maybe at long last there is/will be some fresh material in there, then again, maybe not. Who cares.
One thing that this profession has taught me is that sometimes the best way forward is to read first, get the facts, then think about it for 24 hours.
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Posted By Alan Pearce
Wake up, Kevin! You don’t want to read the book because you simply don’t get it. You are missing the whole point and don’t realise we are both on the same side. One of the main reasons I wrote “It’s Health and Safety Gone Mad” was to highlight how an otherwise respected industry has been hijacked by the no-win-no-fee lawyers and compensation culture, not to mention the few health & safety jobsworths who feel the need to flex their muscles by risk assessing mince pies or carpeting over dance floors.
As to being ‘fiction’, sadly not. Tombstones are being toppled around the country and sports days are being cancelled because of a break in the clouds. And this is the sad part: the Health & Safety Executive are getting it in the neck for the stupidity of others.
By pointing up the madness of banning sea-rescue dogs from the beach or threatening old people with eviction for feeding the birds, we subject these idiots to the ridicule they deserve. It is now up to the genuine safety officials to rise above this and find a way to better present their industry. Why allow yourselves to be dragged into the mire by the morons who are ruining our lives?
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Posted By Luke.
Well said.
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Posted By Tabs
This thread seems to be falling foul of the same problem as the media - writing about the subject without research or understanding. Maybe the title of this thread breaches AUG's?
Alan - does your book slag off H&S? Are you a member of IOSH (reputation)?
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Posted By Peter F.
Lets face it there are people,(professionals) out there who will make daft assessments, you only have to look at some of the questions or responses on these pages to see that. But why does the finger always point at the H&S person, some are decisions made under the guise of H&S, some made with the distinct reason to prevent something happening, managers, headmasters will use h&s as a get out clause. Then of course we have the solicitors who will try and make a case out of anything and the courts who rule in their favour.
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Posted By Jim Walker
Well here we have Kevin and others quite literally judging a book by it's cover.
Lets read it before we pass judgement.
Approaching any problem/issue with a closed mind is highly unprofessional, in my view.
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Posted By James Denman
Kevin,
How can you critise a book that you haven't read?
Your comments seem to mirror those of the media that jump on a story without knowing the full facts.
I'm guessing your a Daily Mail reader!
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Posted By Tracey Kelly
Another one to add to my Christmas wish list. I look forward to reading it and gathering good examples of 'elf'n'safety gone mad.
We (H&S professionals) need to understand why some people "don't get" pragmatic, sensible health & safety principles, and why others are allowed to hijack the name of H&S as an excuse for their actions. Jeremy Clarkson et al aren't our enemies - I find Mr C's opinions almost always amusing, and, to quote the Scottish national bard, allow us to "see ourselves as others see us".
We need to learn how to get our message across to everyone - we can't afford to ignore uncomfortable judgements,opinions or actions. It can be very frustrating when other H&S professionals appear to be contributing to the problem - but perhaps they, too, can learn a lot from reading this book.
Tracey
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Posted By Buzz Lightyear
I have seen your book Alan in a well known book shop. I had a quick flick through but cannot say I have read it so I could be jumping to conclusions. Even though it had a large discount, I really did not feel like buying it - as I had assumed it was dissing H&S. I know you can't judge a book by its cover - but people do.
My initial reaction was one of irritation. The book's cover seemed to give the impression as being an indiscriminate attack on the health and safety profession. Also I was surprised that the HSE allowed you to use one of their cartoons from Myth of the Month.
Your intentions in writing this may be commendable but I am not convinced that it is helpful to our profession - given that the public and media seem unable to differentiate the jobs-worth 'officials' that make daft H&S decisions from CMIOSH and other qualified and experience H&S professionals. Perhaps if people read the book it will elucidate - although I fail to see how a compendium of 'Daily Rant' style case studies will do this?
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Posted By Jez Corfield
Alan's sentiment (I am sure he isnt a troll) is sound, the title might sound a little 'provocative' - but anything that might get the point across about the jobsworths and the terminally over-cautious managers in the public sector can't be a bad thing.
Last weekend I actually read a reasonable piece (I think in the Express?), stressing thate claims and insurance culture rather than 'elf n safety' was responsible for teachers etc. limiting school and community activities. It annoyed me only because I couldnt get annoyed at what they'd written....
Jez
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Posted By Alan Pearce
If you want to take your H&S responsibilities seriously, then learn by the mistakes of others and know how to avoid the pitfalls. It’s as if there are two kinds of Health & Safety. There’s the sensible kind that says hard hats must be worn on building sites and then there’s the other kind that says a May Day parade has to be cancelled because it’s too dangerous for kids to stand in the road holding bunches of flowers.
Personally, I would advise all H&S officers to take a long, hard look at where their industry is going wrong. All too often, H&S is used as an excuse when people are simply scared of being sued. The real culprit is the compensation culture that has seeped into every area of our lives.
People use the H&S excuse for everything these days and it’s ruining our traditional way of life. It’s also turning the industry into a joke because people only see it in a negative light. The industry as a whole needs to do much more to improve its image. Individual H&S officials are regularly laughed at behind their backs because people fail to see through the ‘bonkers’ headlines and don’t realise what an important role they can play.
Learn by others’ mistakes, I say.
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Posted By J Knight
Haven't read the book, but I did look at the publicity blurb on Alan's site; and this is what I found:
'We no longer fear banging our heads on hanging baskets'; hanging baskets have not been banned despite tabloid reports,
'Thanks to the Health and Safety Offences Act 2008 what was once seen as a mishap is now classified as a crime'; this statement is tosh, quite meaningless,
I think my main concern is why anybody would find this sort of trivia interesting, even where there is a little substance to some of it. I mean, who really cares whether one (1, count them, 1) ice-cream parlour chain in London has decided to offer customers sauces in pots instead of pouring them on the ice-creams? Who really, really cares? Well, to judge by the particular media organs covering this, only the same people who will happily froth at the mouth at any provocation, as it seems to be their hobby. Good luck to 'em I say, but I live in a world with different priorities.
And Alan, if your intention is to redress balance in some way, your website really doesn't give that impression,
John
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Posted By Alan Pearce
Personally, I think we should all worry at the vast amount of ill-thought out legislation that has come out of this government. We should be careful that the Health and Safety Offences Act 2008 doesn't go the same way as the new terror laws where dog walkers and 'bin criminals' are the targets, not al Qaeda. I bet the day will come when householders are fined under the Act for have 'trip hazard' door mats!
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Posted By Clark Kent
Read the book, he makes a lot of sense.
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Posted By Phil Rose
Alan - I haven't seen or read your book, and may or may not in the future. However, i do find your comments about the H&S offences Act curious. The act concentrates on the method of trial (either summarily or by indictment) and the sentencing powers in each case. I don't see how this particular piece of legislation can possibly "..go the same way as the new terror laws .." or that it would or even could be responsible for householders being prosecuted for 'dodgy doormats'. the act itself is not concerned with the prosecution of an offence in itself. I hope your comments in regard to this particular act are not indicative of the contents of your book.
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Posted By J Knight
Alan,
Do you know what the H&S offences Act is about? What makes you think it's ill thought out? Or is is just that it happens to come from this government, so must be ill thought out?
There is a book to be written about all this though, and it's a book about the media. About the pressures which mean that journalists publish ill-researched stories based on hearsay, and don't check facts first. It's a book about the political reasons behind the prominence given to obscure and irrelevant events (is one school's 'ban' on football boots for children really national news? Really?). Oh, sorry, it's already been written, it's called 'Flat Earth News', and that's one that really does need to be on everybody's Xmas list,
John
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Posted By Raymond Rapp
I may or may not read Alan's book. Nevertheless, I welcome any intervention that highlights some of the h&s absurdity which is documented in the media, albeit not always factual. Top marks in my book.
We should not read too literally into some of Alan's comments on this forum, which I suspect are embellished with some journalistic licence.
Ray
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Posted By Alan Pearce
I remember when the Terrorism Act was debated in the Commons in December 1999, Jack Straw, then Home Secretary, said: “The Bill does not focus on demonstrations, which are a normal activity in a democracy. I wholly defend people’s right to go in for peaceful protest.”
And surprise, surprise. It does just that. Watch out for 'function creep' on this one, too.
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Posted By Alan Pearce
John, I couldn’t agree more. ‘Flat Earth News’ should be required reading in every newsroom and media class. After 30 years in the business, I won’t work in mainstream journalism any more because they do such a poor job informing us; the economy being a prime example. However, I feel it is important to highlight the madness that seems to be gripping our society. And, far from being made up, these same stories crop up time again all around the country. The effect of all this is to make us even more ‘risk adverse’. If we can’t laugh at it, we might as well roll over and play dead in the face of invasive government, national and local.
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Posted By Phil Rose
I also welcome anything that serves to lift the lid off some of the often intentionally inaccurate and misleading reports in the media. I have been pretty vocal on this forum about the posting and subsequent discussion of 'news' stories often from the pages of the Daily Mail. I have no problems with Alan's book and I won't pass judgement on it until if, as and when I read it.
However, the reference to the H&S offences act does not fill me with confidence as to Alan's understanding of H&S law. As most of us here know, that act does not deal with the commission of an offence in itself but on the subsequent method of trial and the sentencing powers. It does NOT in ITSELF deal with the offence that the person is on trial for, nor 'dodgy doormats' and nor can I see that it will suffer from 'function creep' as suggested.
As I have said, I hope that Alan's 'interpretation' and understanding of this piece of (let's face it, pretty simple and straightforward) legislation is not an indication of the standard of the content of his book.
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Posted By Elfy
Lets face it, there are H&S practitioners out there doing the profession harm with some awful decision making / advice and we know it.
Thankfully however it is a minority.
If we were all doing a good job the HSE wouldn't currently be travelling the length of the UK telling us that our advice should be proportionate, reasonable, suitable etc etc etc.
Confirmation I believe from the HSE that some are getting it badly wrong.
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Posted By Alan Pearce
Phil, when Acts of Parliament are written with such woolly words they are open to all sorts of interpretation. This has certainly been the case with the majority of new laws passed in the last 12 years. There is plenty of scope in the Act for ‘function creep’.
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Posted By Phizzle
I think a common problem is that safety practitioners react to these stories in one of two ways:
1: Hide your head in the sand hoping the stories will go away.
2: Go mental, throwing scorn at anyone who dares blacken the name of health and safety.
I'm not sure either approach works really. We must not forget that not all these stories are made up myths, and some (most?!) actually have happened. Should we not try to understand why people make such decisions, if all else in order to improve ourselves?
I'd buy and read the book - if it wasn't a regurgitated version of a previous publication - as it desn't offend or bother me. I'd like to think I know what I'm doing well enough to not be featured in future versions and not to get a complex about it.
Ian
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Posted By Phil Rose
Alan - I will have to defer to your obviously greater understanding of the act then!!!!!
I think that anyone on here that has an understanding of H&S law will KNOW that your interpretation is way off track.
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Posted By Nicholas Sutcliffe
it seems that those people slagging off the book are the same people that DO take themselves and their jobs to seriously, more Bonkers Conkers due to lack of understanding.
http://www.iosh.co.uk/in...go=news.viewfeed&id=1088
this chap died because H&S told the refuse collectors not to look inside bins, not to even take off the lids, that is health and safety gone mad, but in a not so amusing situation.
I'm sure we have all heard of common sense? for those of us that have it (a minority i know)but lets try to use it.
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Posted By J Knight
Nicholas,
are you suggesting that we should not take our jobs seriously? Do you think I can turn around to my employer and say, 'well, you pay me £x p.a. but we can't be too serious about it, after all, they did ban conkers!'
The circumstances around the death you have mentioned in your post are dreadful, but not I think due to bad H&S judgment. Asking refuse workers not to open bins for very reasonable fear of what might be inside is not such an imposition on our great British freedoms. On this occasion though, there was a greater risk which nobody had considered. In other words, an honest mistake, and I'm sure the perpetrator of that mistake is feeling pretty awful right now, I know I would be if, heaven forbid, I contributed in any way to a death.
Of course we take our jobs seriously, most of us work in serious industries which injure hundreds of people every year, despite our best efforts. The media isn't exactly helping us keep people safe, and that's what's at the back of some of the feelings expressed in this thread,
John
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Posted By Nicholas Sutcliffe
Thanks John, just the reply i was expecting.
No i am not saying you should not take your job seriously, I am saying some people take their jobs TO seriously. Conkers do not kill people, nor do summer fetes, Its stupidity and over zealous bureaucracy that kills people.
Also do not presume to speak for the rest of the users of this site, not all are involved in hazardous occupations nor do they all deal with life and death situations on a daily basis.
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Posted By Peter F.
Rubbish pardon the pun! I have read the article and it was the way the operation was conducted. The same people would slag health and safety off if the bin men opened the bins to search for homeless people and got hurt.
How far are people supposed to go, maybe they should empty the bins on the floor and then shovel it back in before emptying. At some point people also have to take responsibility for the actions unfortunately someone died but the shouldn't mean that every bin in the country should be searched.
Come on get a grip!
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Posted By Nicholas Sutcliffe
no mention of searching the bin, but maybe lifting the lid and having a quick peep inside would have prevented a poor man from dying.
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Posted By Luke.
Thanks to all who have/are posting on this topic... it's making my Monday!
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Posted By J Knight
Peter,
I agree with you; we really can't win and there's no point in trying. The reasons for this are to be found in 'Flat Earth News'.
Nicholas,
What this book and others like it are 'fighting against' doesn't really exist. The 'bonkers conkers' incident, to take a well trodden example, was a publicity stunt by a fed-up teacher. Most of what you read about 'silly' H&S decisions is either untrue or so badly reported as to be as good as. Again, please see 'Flat Earth News' for details.
Over-zealous bureaucracy doesn't actually kill people, it's usually tiredness, work pressure, badly-thought out systems of work or (rarely) simple stupidity. And we don't all work in brutally macho 'high-risk' environments; I work in a sector which most H&S people would consider singularly low-risk, but people are killed every year in incidents arising from work in my sector,
John
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Posted By John Allen
Well said John Knight.
I would have had a lot more sympathy for the author had he penned a book entitled “1001 common workplace accidents and how to avoid them” but that would hardly have earned the same sales would it? The words "band" and "wagon" spring to mind.
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Posted By John Allen
PS
I haven’t read Flat Earth News yet although its on my list. Also worth a look to get an insight into the impeccable standards of our media is “Bad Science”. I saw someone mention the Daily Express further up this thread. Check http://www.badscience.ne...as-the-cancer/#more-1374
for an example of how badly its Sunday sister got things wrong. It isn’t just our profession that is maligned by these awful hacks.
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Posted By Peter F.
Nicholas
He would have probably covered himself up so wouldn't of been seen anyway. But then again everything is full of what if's.
We can't have it both ways we work in a profession that doesn't acknowledge things that don't happen. I could write a book called 'Today I saved a life' but how do I prove that by putting actions in place that may have prevented injury or death this significantly contributed to saving someones life from injury or death.
We only hear about H&S when it goes wrong or is used for the wrong purpose.
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Posted By Phil Rose
For the sake of clarity - I am NOT slagging off the book in ANY way at all. I do however, question the authors understanding of the H&SO act and wonder whether this lack of understanding of such a basic piece of H&S legislation is any indication of the content of the book.
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Posted By Peter F.
Phil,
think you'll find a number of different discussions taking place.
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Posted By J Knight
Phil,
I'd say my position about the book is about the same as yours,
John
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Posted By Benjamin76
Call me a cynic, but I cannot help but wonder what Mr Pearce thinks of this forum.
At number 2 on the reply, he was quick to jump on board.
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Posted By jshand
I think the root of this issue is one of competence.
Over and over again you hear of decisions being made prohibiting perfectly safe activities in the name of health & safety. Scratch the surface and you will find that these decisions are being made by people with no competency in health & safety what so ever.
I frequently have the Health & Safety at Work Act mis-quoted to me. Its embarrassing at best and dangerous at worst. A little knowledge and all that....
Also, I see nothing sinister in a piece of legislation which seeks to re-dress the balance in terms of increasing penalties for individuals and organisations who cause death of others through negligence of willfully flouting the law. This legislation does not impact on individuals civil liberties and therefore cannot be compared to the terrorism legislation.
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