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#1 Posted : 22 October 2009 12:11:00(UTC)
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Posted By Rick1138
Hi all,

I am new to the IOSH boards, i have been a H&S practitioner for about a year and a half now.

I was a document controller originally, but my last workplace had their HSE advisor leave for a new job overseas. I was (surprisingly) offered his job. I had zero experience in HSE but i was good at controling document systems and had recently finished my degree in business administration and management.

I was put through my nebosh Gen certificate, which i passed wqith credit, and have also completed internal audit courses and various courses for fire safety and COSHH,

However after a year in that position, my company fell into financial strife and they had to make some staff redundant, i waqs one of these people. However it turned out after a month of my notice period, they said i couldn't be fired as HSE turned out to be too important and encompasing to hand it over to another staff member.

Unfortunately the situation was handled badly, and i had a better offer at a new business.

I have been in my new job for 4 months now, it is a very different place to my last job, mostly office based, my new job is a fabrication business mainly welding pipework and offshore fabrications.

We have ISO9001, 14001 and OHSAS 18001 certs, however the HSE requirements of the job have become to large for the managing director to carry out so i was hired to carry out H&S obligations for the company.

The problem is i have been the sole HSE person at both companies, i have never had an instructor or someone to follow, so i am still very green.

As a result i am coming into a workplace that is classed as a high risk profession, i.e. hot work, power tools etc. The staff are quite good at HSE but in the first 3 months of the job i have been audited twice by BSI 2 suprise inspections by the HSE and some client audits.

We have issues that i am implementing, but i feel like all my job involves as seen by the chairman is to cost them money, i.e. HAVS controls and training, training courses for staff in OHC use, LEV systems (which will not be cheap)and getting staff on my side to understand why they have to wear ear protection, eye glasses and why i need to bring in all these changes.

I have been thrown very much in the deep end, and i feel i am becoming unpopular very quickly as i do not have a huge amount of confidence in my role and i need to be ascertive, but i also feel there is a lot of resentment at the role (not me personally) from some staff, and that HSE is simply "jobs for the boys" and how can the company scrape by with PPE\Safe system equipment, rather than buy what is suitable, get the cheapest one and make do.

Its difficult to enjoy your work when you feel if something goes wrong, i will be the one getting fired when i am still trying to find my feet, even after a year of reading all i can, about HSE management.

I don't know how you experienced guys got to your positions before throwing in the pan and leaving companies to their fate.

Anyone any advice for a new HSE manager who feels the whole world suddenly crashed onto his front lawn!

Sorry for long post.
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#2 Posted : 22 October 2009 12:36:00(UTC)
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Posted By SNS
Hi Rick,

It's not a popularity contest - don't be too depressed about the atmosphere or reactions of others.

If you are able to point out the benefits of a strong safety culture - efficient, clean, do the job once, no (or at most minimal) injuries, people coming to work and going home at least as fit as they came in etc etc.

We do cost money, but overall we save a lot more than we cost - its just difficult to quantify sometimes.

Nil illigitemii carborundum (or whatever it should be in proper latin!)

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#3 Posted : 22 October 2009 13:27:00(UTC)
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Posted By Kieran J Duignan
Rick

Appreciative of your concerns, I'm also puzzled by your choice of heading.

If you want to start developing a safety culture, it can be much more straightfoward than you may imagine.

For the essence is to stimulate and support conversation about strains of change, especially by managers.

An excellent, well-validated survey for this task is available from a university in Nova Scotia. It was developed by Micheel Leiter, one of the psychologists who's a world leader in stresses of organsiastional change. What's great about it is that the modest price for using it includes the survey norms which you can use to benchmark your scores.

This enables managers to see how they compare to thousands of other organsitions, and why.

Taking the initiative to develop a safety culture could turn out to be your bridge to the next stage of professional accomoplishment, however it turns out.
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#4 Posted : 22 October 2009 13:35:00(UTC)
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Posted By Stuart Haysman
Chin up!

It's by no means a unique situation, I for one have been there before. Try to justify what you want to spend in terms of cost savings (direct or indirect) - what's the cost / benefit of LEV against a prosecution, a few civil claims for asthma and a drop in production capacity whilst sorting this all out? Changing a culture is a long campaign full of small battles. You need to find out what makes 'those in power' tick and sell improvements to them in their language.

Took me two years to bring (drag!) my previous company up to speed and perversely once I'd done it the challenge was over and I moved on to do it again somewhere else!

As long as you know deep down you're doing the right thing, don't worry about what others think.

Stu
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#5 Posted : 22 October 2009 13:44:00(UTC)
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Posted By Kate Graham
I've been there and what was most helpful for me was being able to meet other H&S people in the same business sector. The chance to talk about "what do you do about ...?" and just generally to realise that others are in the same situation makes it all less lonely and stressful. I don't know what opportunities there might be for you to do this, but if you have any, take them!
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#6 Posted : 22 October 2009 13:46:00(UTC)
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Posted By Rick1138
Cheers for the responses.

I think the biggest problem is i am not 100% sure what i am doing.

I know a good chunk of the theory, but i am not 100% sure what i am saying is always correct, i.e. a legislative point, i may not be sure on, and it holds me back from being confident.

Although TBF my main managing director is very helpful, if a little distant, but he understands now that i can't just appear and start sorting things out. and the Chairman knows that money has to be specnt, and they seem happy that i am trying to work with the company rather than demand things change.

Its just the feeling of insecurity that a lot of the lads in the workshop see me as a young lad who is trying to make their job harder, though i have started to talk to them at the start of shifts, coming in early to explain why earplugs need to be used, as its lapsed from the previous person and my coming on board.

Although i found this forum just the other day and it has lots of real world examples which are a lot more helpful, and i now know i can post any queries i might have and get real world experience.

But can someone please explain how i got into HSE when i always thought it was "Elf and Safety gon MAAAD!", now it pays my bills and i find myself giving a damn about staff safety. hmm
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#7 Posted : 22 October 2009 14:06:00(UTC)
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Posted By John Packer
Rick,
I'm not sure anyone working in H&S knows how they got here. You attend one little course there,,you taken one little responsability here,,and before you know whats hit you you end up working full time in H&S. I've still yet to meet the person that said; "When I grow up I want to work in H&S!"
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#8 Posted : 22 October 2009 16:37:00(UTC)
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Posted By Duncan Spencer
Rick

In my experience the key to developing culture is quite simple - talk to folks! I have found that the best way to do that is to start with risk assessment. If you use the workforce to inform the content of the risk assessment and to decide what the controls ought to be (with a bit of guidance from you - a few pieces of technical know-how suggestions) then they will start to fell they own the process and the results. They are less likely to ignore the results if they feel they had opporunity to influence them. If you can bust a few local 'elf & safety myths along the way (i.e. rules made in the name of H&S before you arrived that are clearly ludicrous) all the better for getting your colleagues on board.

Start with your most significant risks - don't try to bite off more than you can chew. A couple of wins will soon set you on your journey.

Don't worry about not knowing everything - none of us do. That's one of the great things about our profession; you never stop learning.

Good Luck!
Duncan
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#9 Posted : 22 October 2009 16:54:00(UTC)
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Posted By Liz Maw
Hi Rick

I've not used the mentoring service offered by IOSH myself as I've been in this line of work now for many many years, but it sounds like mentoring might help you.

If you contact IOSH HQ they will apoint you an experienced and trained mentor who can help and guide you through any safety issues you are struggling with.

Hope this is helpful.
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#10 Posted : 22 October 2009 17:00:00(UTC)
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Posted By SOD
Hi Rick
My coloured background is engineering and fabrication including over 10 years in pipeline welding of 8" to 50" dia pipes world-wide! Now primarily auditing to 9001 and 18001 and h&s training, but I would be happy to lend an ear whenever you need a sounding board! Particularly if you are drowning under so many audits!

Very much agree with the first comment Nil desperandum etc.,

Keep the faith!

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#11 Posted : 22 October 2009 18:33:00(UTC)
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Posted By Dee
Rick

You have mail

Donna
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#12 Posted : 23 October 2009 09:04:00(UTC)
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Posted By MT
Have you been along to meetings of the IOSH Group in Aberdeen? You'd probably meet some other practitioners who would be willing to help you.
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#13 Posted : 23 October 2009 09:21:00(UTC)
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Posted By Rick1138
Didin't even know there was one to be honest.

Or where it would be, or more to the point if i would be allowed off work to go to such a thing.
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#14 Posted : 23 October 2009 09:33:00(UTC)
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Posted By MrPaul
Good Morning All,

I have been reading these forums for a while now, and feel it is time to ask if there is anyone who is able to offer some advice and support to someone who is very passionate about H&S, but who's head is starting to hurt from all the banging against that brick-wall. I too am relatively new to the industry and am experiencing similar challenges.
I am based in the Portsmouth / Southampton area.

Feel free to get in touch, if there is any advice on raising the culture within an organisation. I am currently reading through HSG65. I know there is no quick fix, but I feel I need to start taking a few steps forward.

Thanking you in advance.

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#15 Posted : 23 October 2009 09:34:00(UTC)
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Posted By Tracey Kelly
Rick,

I want to wish you luck with your job – I’m sure you will do fine – as you realise that you don’t know everything, and can ask for help.

When you come across opposition to your advice or proposals, ask yourself if that individual (or group of individuals) would respond better to financial, regulatory, moral or personal benefit arguments - then tailor your tactics accordingly.

My advice would be to keep talking to people, and read as much as you can on the IOSH, HSE, and EU OSHA web sites. If you can, it is also useful to have access to the Barbour Index for checking up on the current guidelines, research etc. Be a squirrel – seek out as much information as you can about every topic that you come across, and always check if there is a new code of practice or HSE publication / web pages (even if it is a topic that you worked on a few months before).

One word of warning – I know from experience that some people will respond to posts on this forum in a nasty way. Please don’t be put off it that happens to you – ignore them and keep on posting your queries and benefitting from the many helpful responses you will get.

Tracey
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#16 Posted : 23 October 2009 10:53:00(UTC)
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Posted By Dav
Rick

A very interesting post.

Much of what has been said already i agree with, in particular about the job not being a popularity contest. If they go home at night angry with you at least they are going home. Some of the worst safety advisors i have worked with have been the ones that are too ‘pally’ with the staff. They are as bad as the ones that have no rapport at all.

I also agree with previous posters regarding your need to read all you can as this will help your confidence. However, knowing how to deal with people is as important as knowing the ins and outs of each piece of legislation, guidance and best practice. You will have many different characters working throughout your organisation from the director at the ‘top’ to those at the ‘bottom’. Each one will need to be approached differently in order to get the best out of them. Some will take more time than others to come round. Some may never come round.

As well as reading all the information that people have suggested i would also suggest looking into behavioural safety which will help you understand the psychology of why people chose not to work safely. In addition to books and websites, there are many good videos which you could watch too, and which in time you could show your workforce. SGB do a good video about a scaffolding incident and the video about Ken Woodward who was blinded in an industrial accident is excellent and really brings things home. This is very good one to show everyone.

Good luck.
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#17 Posted : 23 October 2009 11:29:00(UTC)
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Posted By MT
Rick, details of the Branch are here:

http://www.iosh.co.uk/in...o=branches.details&id=14

Next meeting is 11 November at 6pm off the Lang Stracht. Some of the meetings are held in the afternoons, but equally some are in the evenings, which is good for those who have a problem leaving work to attend.
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#18 Posted : 23 October 2009 11:40:00(UTC)
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Posted By Mick Byrne
Rick,

There have been some very useful comments posted in answer to your original post, all of which I agree with. In the challenging environment in which you mow find yourself it is probably worth remembering that there is a lot to be gained from highlighting the positive things (there will be some!)in the battle to win hearts and minds.

I am fortunate to work in a place where there is a positive safety culture which I believe is primarily for three reasons. We focus on behavioural safety observations (undertaken mainly by members of senior management), we have a just culture and we reward good and best practice where it is observed.

A recent example would be a rigger who won three awards in the space of a month for excellent hazard observations, some of which were in areas you might expect to be outside his 'comfort zone'. His good work was publicised in the plant newsletter resulting in a discernable ripple effect with people across site raising issues and reporting concerns with the ultimate goal of winning a safety award; the most popular prize being a voucher for a full English breakfast from the canteen.

A little good will goes a long way.
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#19 Posted : 23 October 2009 11:57:00(UTC)
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Posted By alex mccreadie
Rick

Remember you got this job through your own ability to sell yourself and not through your Health ansd Safety experience. In itself that says a lot about you. Carry on what you are doing talk to the workforce and show them you care about them. The worst thing (in my opinion) you can do is quote regulations to them. It will take you years to understand the regulations but as long as you know where to look it will help.
Good luck and welcome to the forum.

Alex
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#20 Posted : 23 October 2009 12:03:00(UTC)
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Posted By David Gault
I run a free H&S group in Shropshire. A group of about 20 H&S managers from different businesses get together to discuss various issues every couple of months. Whilst I appreciate that you may have too far to travel to join us you are welcome to join the email list if you want to.

You are also welcome to vist the site I work for. Again it is in Shropshire but you and/or your managers would be welcome if you want to see a management system in operation (in fact if anyone else out there want s to talk just let me know). My work email is david.gault@ricoh-rpl.com.

The site, by the way, is a large manufacturing plant but not of the heavy industry type you describe. Anyway the invitation is there (to you and others) if want to accept it.

I can give you info via email if you want to contact me.
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#21 Posted : 23 October 2009 12:49:00(UTC)
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Posted By mark linton
Hi Rick

Someone may have mentioned this already but I only scanned the other responses. In your position I would contact firms in your local area, particularly one's you know work in high risk operations and ask if they would mind a networking visit. Most H&S people I have spoken to are more than happy to oblige - I believe that most of us are so starved of interested listeners we are willing talk to anyone ;). Even where there is limited similarities between companies, any visit and subsequent discussions always brings up something you can use (I always find them hugely beneficial).
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