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Posted By Crim Hi, I would be interested in any feedback from people who have and use/benefit from the Road Angel System. I picked up a ticket the other week, did not see the camera and did not receive a warning from my Tomtom. I think it must have been a portable, hand held gun hidden in the bushes? By the way the following information may be useful if you follow the link below, click on and enter your vehicle reg number and look at the "view picture" photo, you may be very surprised! http://www.i-database.co.uk/index1.php
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Posted By Luke.
Happy Friday
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Posted By Pete Chidwick
Try not to take this the wrong way Crim - but there we have it, the crux of the H&S issue.
An age qualified, trained, licensed, risk aware, H&S professional in full knowledge of the speed limits gets a ticket for speeding - yet we still preach the mantra 'all accidents are preventable' and expect people to act in a completely different way in the workplace.
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Posted By Pete Chidwick
Crim – nice one! Humble pie just been eaten!
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Posted By J Knight
Sorry to say this Crim, but don't pay £x for a road angel. Your car has a secret (and free) piece of equipment which very few drivers seem to know about. Learn to pay attention to it and you will never ever get a speeding ticket. It's called a speedometer and it's right in front of you,
John
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Posted By BJA
Of course we are all whiter than white;the pernicious aspect of these cameras was an attempt to further erode the right to silence a cornerstone of jurisprudence.
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Posted By Mark Bart
Looks like I got caught in Camridge! Cant remember being there!
Photo looks nothing like me!!!
Still will have to wait for me ticket.
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Posted By Kevin Brown
Any statistics available for RTAs caused by drivers obsessively monitoring their speedoes? In my part of the world the speed limits vary alarmly without any apparent reason, sometimes from 50 to 30, and often over a very short distance.
An uncharitabe soul might think someone's trying to catch out drivers on purpose, solely for gain. Surely not.
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Posted By Decimomal
AUG 1 states:
The forums are for professional discussion and debate of workplace health and safety and environmental issues.
How is this question related to workplace health and safety and environmental issues? (Or were you in a company car on company business)?
Happy Friday :)
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Posted By Crim
Safety cameras are positioned in locations where low speed is desirable, yes we do have instruments in our vehicles that let us know the speed but sometimes we do not know what the limit is.
If we had the extra piece of kit that alerted us to the safety camera then we would slow down to the correct speed for the area.
In this occasion I was slowing down from motorway speed to built up area, actually not much over the limit but still guilty as charged.
If we are not supposed to know the camera location then they are not "safety" but "lets take some money off the unsuspecting motorist" cameras.
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Posted By Crim
Decimomal, I am self employed and was working at the time.
I always thought safety was for everywhere anyway?
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Posted By Luke.
1. we are not perfect, we make mistakes.
2. nice to see some of us have a sense of humor.
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Posted By andy.c.
Does anybody know Mr Loophole's number!!
i don't remember being in Cambridge but the photographic evidence is condeming.
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Posted By Crim
Pete, I didn't have an accident, personnaly I have been driving for 42 years and never had an accident involving another vehicle that was my fault.
This is not about accidents but knowing where to slow down as an accident prevention measure, (and to avoid the fine plus points of course).
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Posted By J Knight
OK, I fell for it.... Gosh, what a twit,
John
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Posted By Decimomal
"Safety cameras are positioned in locations where low speed is desirable, yes we do have instruments in our vehicles that let us know the speed but sometimes we do not know what the limit is".
I think yuo are about to shoot yourself in the foot on this one Crim.
Safety Cameras are certainly not positioned in locations where low speed is 'desirable' as you put it. They are there for reasons of safety and have been put in known blackspots or where there are routine violations. As for "we sometimes do not know what the limit is", well we should.
I have also been caught out - going from a 40mph zone to a 30mph zone and accepted the £60.00 and 3 points with good grace knowing I had no one to blame but myself.
Ciao 4 now.
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Posted By MT
Crim, if you're saying that there weren't any speed limit signs along the road on which you were driving, then you really need to report this to the relevant authority. It would obviously cause grief for drivers caught speeding, and possibly cause accidents too.
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Posted By D H
Is it acceptable using any tool to defeat a safety device? In this case the road angel?
Dave
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Posted By Luke.
Andy C... Nick Freeman - 0161 233 2130 ... take a blank cheque :)
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Posted By alex mccreadie
Crim
We seem to be about the same age ,or at least been driving the same time are we related?
The picture seems to show we are identical twins.
Nice one Alex
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Posted By Crim
Alex, we could even be the same person?
While I posted this thread with some humour, and happy to see it is being enjoyed, I still want some feedback on the Road Angel.
It appears that portable hand held cameras do not need to display warning signs?
No shooting myself in the foot, I have returned the document to admit it was me and will pay the fine when required to. As I said guilty as charged, fyi it was 38mph in a 30 mph area.
Try motorway driving then immediately 38mph, it really does seem to be slooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwwwwww!
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Posted By John Packer
I've started to use cruise control when going through the 50mph zones on the M5 and M3 just to avoid falling foul. Sort of like a poor mans pit-lane speed limiter.
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Posted By alex mccreadie
Alright Bruv
I borrowed a Road Angel for a time and found it can only tell you about fixed point cameras.
It as you rightly say no use for hand held speed guns. It would warn you of potential vans on motorway bridges once people reported them to Road Angel. I do rely on the speedometer.Unlike others I am prepared to admit that if you drive a lot of miles (like we do)you can lose concentration for a bit and that is when you get caught out.The excellent very clever FIOSH who took me on a CSMS course admitted to having 9 points for speeding. What chance do us lesser mortals have?
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Posted By Lee Ray
If its a gps system it will not detect mobile camera's but your sat nav will probably need updating for speed camera locations as they usually store locations used by mobile camera's.
For mobile camera's, you need a laser scanner device, these are still legal, it is the laser jammers that are illegal.
also, seen the i-database before so didn't fall for it, but it is nice to know that some people do and some people don't have a sense of humour in the safety profession
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Posted By grim72
I used to car share with a colleague and he used one of these (before the days of tomtoms). Incicentally am I the only one that thinks these should be mandatory for reps on the road - surely a safety improvement compared to using a map. Back to the car share - it did work, and did pick up mobile traps too, unfortunately it also went off whenever we passed a garage with automatic doors to the shop. No idea why but it always made me laugh - never knew if we were about to have a policeman jumping out or a trucker with a sausage roll.
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Posted By Andy Petrie
Given a lot of companies will sack their employees if they have been arrested for drink or drugs related offences (outside work) why don't they sack people who are caught speeding, which is arguably more dangerous than having a joint?
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Posted By Lee Ray
because you have never accidentally gone over the speed limit??
If that were the case why aren't we immediately disqualified from driving for doing 34 in a 30 instead of given 3 points and a £60 fine? Obviously we must be a danger on the roads.
BTW i don't have any points on my license.
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Posted By Colin Reeves
"Safety Cameras are certainly not positioned in locations where low speed is 'desirable' as you put it. They are there for reasons of safety and have been put in known blackspots or where there are routine violations."
That was the original guidelines - but these have been well eroded now to make "safety" cameras into milk cows!
Colin
(Thankfully we have none up here!)
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Posted By Paul Duell
**"Safety cameras are positioned in locations where low speed is desirable..."**
Where do you live, and are there any H&S jobs going round your way?
In Hampshire, the majority of "Safety" cameras are positioned exactly where it would be safe to go a bit faster - like a long straight stretch of road between two sets of sharp bends, or approaching the end of the first "safe overtaking" stretch for ten miles...
Someone else asked, "is it right to over-ride a safety device" - probably not, when you put it like that. But if all our workplaces had an alarm which triggered when there was about to be a safety infringement, but before it happened, how many accidents would be prevented?
Paul (also zero points...so far)
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Posted By Crim
I have Tomtom with safety cameras, and get warnings on motorways where there have been roadworks but not updated following road works ending.
I am interested in the Road Angel portable warnings, for my and others personal safety also to keep my license intact. This will be 6 points as I received 3 over a year ago, again caught by a mobile camera - on a motorway bridge.
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Posted By Brett Day
Since actual recievers (both radar and laser) have been made illegal ALL units legally on the market will only show camera sites - some companies will include the static sites that camera vans often use, but this will result in 'false' alerts coming up.
However Mr Trafpol rocking up in a layby with a handheld unit will not show up.
There are reciever / jammer units on the market - all highly illegal and from chatting with my Class 1 instructor he demonstrated that they can be detected - be warned !
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Posted By Brett Day There is a Highways Agency report regarding cameras: http://www.ha-research.g...ojects/index.php?id=1258Extract from e-mail (Mods I do have permission to reproduce): "In recent months, average speed cameras (ASC) have been hailed as revolutionary – avoiding the problems of distraction and sudden braking associated with fixed/mobile cameras. But when the Highways Agency recently sent me a copy of “Safety Camera Technology at Roadworks – Final Report, March 2008”, I found that it conceded that several hazards are created by the deployment of ASCs: · Sudden braking · Distraction · Reduced headway (time between vehicles) - exacerbated by the sudden braking · Lane changing The report also acknowledges that there are no proven safety benefits (collision/casualty reduction) and that driver education campaigns may become of increased importance to encourage “correct behaviour”. These conclusions are all the more surprising when you realise that the participants in this study were employees of the HA or the consultancy preparing the report (many subjective comments suggest that they are predisposed to the “potential benefits of speed cameras”)." If you want to read the whole e-mail (it's a hefty thing it's at: http://www.safespeed.org...iewtopic.php?f=5&t=21116Regards
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Posted By Flic
While there may not be hard evidence to show the effect of average speed cameras I have noted a distinct change in driver behaviour on a very congested major road locally since they were fitted.
People no longer race past at 90mph and slam the brakes on just before the Gatso. They drive at steady speed the whole way. It is nowhere near so heart stopping to drive on this road.
Flic
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Posted By Brett Day
ASC's have negated the speed up slow down style of driving, but this reports indicates that it is helping a culture of tailgating and a large number of rear end shunts.
What's worse 1 high speed fatalty or 1000 medium speed shunts ?
The argument up until this report is that by reducing TrafPol and spending more on cameras it is managing (and reducing) the hazard, now it appears that it is not the case.
How would the HSE react if we told them that we were going to introduce a hazard to control another?
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Posted By Jane Smythe
No static cameras in North Yorkshire...so what does that tell me...that they are usually another source if income, just my opinion.
Or we Yorkies drive far superior to the southerners !!
:-))
Happy Friday
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Posted By D H
Nice one Crim - I could not open the link at work therefore caught out - thanks for the laugh.
On a more serious note, there was word that each and every Gatso required an individual license to be legal - and that this is not always happening - someone can maybe back me up here?
I understand the person that got the tolls abolished on the Skye bridge has deliberately gotten himself caught speeding in both England and Scotland and plans to plead not guilty and use this as his defence.
However, I believe that they are refusing to prosecute him?
Worth challenging the ticket Crim?
Dave
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Posted By Crim
Thanks Dave, I will await my letter from the police and think about "asking the question".
To all those who had a laugh, you are most welcome, glad you enjoyed it!
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Posted By Brett Day
It's actually an old argument that the courts have just ignored - it was raised about 6 years ago when the LTi 20 laser unit was brought out and outside experts started getting 9-12mph readings from stationary vehicles.
The argument was ruled as inadmissable. It would appear that there has been a lot more documentation since come to light which could prove a stronger argument.
IMO it will not be upheld as if found in the defendant's favour it could mean that HMG would be liable for refunding previous fines, compensation due to increased insurance premiums and loss of jobs where licences have been lost.
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