Chris, if you don't mind I'd be very interested in what is covered at the course.

I'm trying to get an idea of what various camera partnerships / safer roads bureaus are covering. I've seen some where all they cover is 'Speed Kills' and others that actually cover techniques that can help improve a drivers standards.

Regards

Brett

Hi, having trouble posting this reply, tried twice without success.

Brett,

I will provide some feedback here once completed the course.

Sorry to frag this one back from the death but I read an interesting article this morning about a driver successfully challenging a speeding ticket thanks to vehicle tracking technology installed in his van. The guy was allegedly doing 61mph in a 50mph but he was sure he wasnt. He contacted the company providing their vehicle tracking software and they confirmed he was doing 48mph. Makes you wonder how many times the police use false speeds in their prosecutions. You can find info on this link if you are interested: http://www.mhwmagazine.c...ing_technology-5362.html

Grim see also: http://www.bbc.co.uk/ins...ies7/speed_cameras.shtml

I've played with a hand held unit and manged to get a 5mph reading from a stationary car. Unfortunately the courts accept the manufacturers word that the unit is accurate, when defense asks for the unit to be independently tested or additional evidence is brought forward as in the case you mentioned often the case gets dropped.

The downside is that it is very expensive to defend this case in time and money.

Other approaches to road safety include ideas by:

Monderman (Shared or Naked Streets) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Monderman

JJ Leeming http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._J._Leeming , http://www.abd.org.uk/jjleeming.htm

There was also an experiment in Montana (I think) where road signage was reduced and limits changed (and in some cases removed).

Hi Chris,
Not sure what you mean?
Where I come from "Super Lynx" is a millitary helicopter.

I haven't read and digested the whole thread but was interested in the last bit of Brett's post. Many years ago now we were holidaying out west (USA) where there are various different speed limits in force in different states. But the Montana one caught my eye. As we crossed the state line the speed limit said something like, "Speed Limit - by day - safe and prudent - by night 65". I also recall that a white cross was placed along side the road wherever there was a fatality; there were many!

The French post two speed limits, one or fair and one for wet weather.

Hi, course attended yesterday, as follows:

Approx 2 hrs theory covering such as - why we drive in excess of speed limits, statistics re acident fatalities, stopping distances, how to recognise the current speed limit, hazard spotting in groups, using photo's and videos.

Approx 3 hrs in a car, three delegates with one driving instructor, sharing the driving and being assessed as to how we perceive hazards etc.

The driving was the best part as it coincided with schools letting out, the roads getting busy, darkness approaching and rainy weather.

I personally learned a lot and now am of the opinion that this type of course should be attended by all drivers as a regular refresher.

It was basically defensive driving looking after yourself, and looking out for hazards, they are all around you know!

The cost was £91.00 and a full afternoon. Well worth it if I avoid any further tickets for "bad" driving.

Donna, my offence was committed in Swansea, I live in Wirral. When I received my first notice I thought I would have to go to South Wales for the course but on further investigation found they are all over the country and you can attend any one. Maybe you could have found one nearer home, costs however range from £80. to over £150. depending on location.

Sorry if you are now upset about the journey but at least it saved the points on your licence.

No online modules for me. Just the one day attendance, thankfully.

Thanks, now with Christmas on the horizon I'm looking at upgrading my "safety camera detection" equipment.

I have a sat nav with safety cameras but no good for portable/hand held type.

My recent course confirmed to me that it is not always easy to determine the speed limit especially in a strage area so this will assist.

I'm torn between the road angel and snooper lynx leaning toward the former.

Any offered guidance will be gratefully received.

Edward, what a good idea that is.

Some of the info I picked up at my speed awareness course includes vehicles of the near future being controlled by gps technology. There are already vehicles with cruise control and distance detection that slows the vehicle down when too close to the vehicle in front. That type of gadget may be installed to all vehicles in future and control the speed by satellite.

Hi, resurected once again - I have purchased a Road Angel today, christmas present to myself, and just hope it provides some benefit to me. If it works I should never know, if it doesn't I'll certainly find out by receiving a letter from a safety camera enforcement office somewhere.

What I did learn by talking to the sales chap is that the lazer detecter only works when the lazer is switched on to record a speeding vehicle, therefore if I am at the front of the traffic, or the only car on the road at the time, it will not work. The road angel only picks up the gun when it is recording my speed, too late then.

If in a queue of traffic and a lazer detecter is aimed at the front vehicle my road angel will pick up the scatter and warn me of the device.

The only safe option however is to observe the speed limit, when it is apparent what that limit is?

There is another thread similar at present re average speed, perhaps the two can be joined together, MODS ?

Does anybody know what the case would be upon entering a new limit of the signage is apparently incorrect?

ie some of the local 'chavs' may have turned a sign leading into a village to read national speed limit upon entering and 30mph when leaving?

This has happened in some of my local villages, which I know mobile speed units sometimes operate in.

It still amazes me that people will pay for a road angel; just use your speedo. I do and I never have to slow down for cameras, and I have never had a ticket. I drive about 20,000 miles a year, and I encounter fixed cameras, mobile cameras, average speed cameras and anything else the police can throw at me. I accept that sometimes these devices might be inaccurate, but how would Road Angel protect you from an inaccurate camera?

As safety professionals we throw serious wobblies when people break the rules for (apparent) short-term advantage. We really need to examine our own driving habits in the same light. And do you accept it when somebody tells you that they didn't follow the SSOW (or even the regs) because they had personally evaluated the risk and there wasn't any? Hope not.

If you drive 70 miles at a speed of 70 m.p.h it will take one hour, and on say the A1 you would be legal and in no danger of a ticket (and in no need of £400 of electronic jiggery-pokery). Driving the same distance at 90 will take you 47 minutes, a net saving of 13 minutes and considerably more risk of a £60 fine. Given that average speeds are always less than the maximum you get up to, in the real world the difference between somebody aiming to drive at 70 and somebody aiming to drive at 90 will be less than 10 minutes over 70 miles.

Oh and yes, I've seen the traffic light system mentioned as being trialled in Spain. It's in common use in southern Portugal, and it does seem to work.

I'll just get off the hobby horse now,

John

...not to mention the fun of changing down and flooring it whilst overtaking some ol' plodder.

John,

Given that most of the GPS based units take thier data from local authorities, and posted Road Traffic Orders they are often more accurate than signage in some areas.

This is one of the most famous foul ups (Folly Bottom): http://www.lawontheweb.co.uk/motoringbadsigns.htm

Others include:

A35 in Chideock, West Dorset
A5 in Bangor
A27 in Fareham
A379 at Starcross


Likewise, if the official stance is true, cameras are supposed to be placed at accident black spots, I for one would like to know about these, likewise temporary speed limits at road works (whilst I drive as per the conditions) if the conditions indicate a speed that is in excess of the limit (as is becoming more often) I want to know.

At the time drivers where being prosecuted at Folly Bottom, anyone with a GPS based unit would have had the correct speed flash up. Likewise similar strecthes of works in Manchester and Birmingham.

It's useful to have some extra info occasionally.