Rank: Forum user
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First post on the new site so apologies if things dont look correct !!!
We have recently been inspected by the HSE and also an independent firm of H&S consultants who act for a company we have dealings with.
I have always treated workshop axle stands as PUWER but both the HSE and the consultants said they fall within LOLER as they are load bearing and being part of Lifting Operations.
I have found this http://www.hse.gov.uk/fod/infodocs/803_69.pdf that confirms my point as being part of PUWER.
There is reference to axle stand in this new HSE document http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/priced/hsg261.pdf
but no defined clarification if LOLER or PUWER.
Does anyone else have any thoughts ???
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Rank: Super forum user
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IMHO it's PUWER. Not directly related but the guidance to LOLER states that multi-point couplings on the back of agricultural tractors are exempt from LOLER. IMHO that's because its purpose is only to gain clearance from the ground as opposed to achieving greater height.
This conversation has been had before and has been widely publicised, if axle stands came under LOLER wouldn't every car jack in every company vehicle?
Enforcing Officers are human beings and are as equally prone to misunderstanding as everyone else. Far too much of the common rebuttal against our industry is due to mistranslation.
Consultants (GENERALLY) have the advantage of being able to give their opinion, take your money, give you advice and walk-away. Leaving you (ON OCCASIONS) with unworkable, unrealistic and/or unaffordable choices.
If you believe it's PUWER, stand up for what you believe and challenge anyone who questions it. Without good case precedence it's your word against theirs.
ultimately only the courts can decide.
(I was only on my soapbox for a short period!)
I'm an equal opportunities kinda guy so if there's anybody I haven't upset with this post please let me know and I'll try harder in future ;-)
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Rank: Super forum user
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Safety Smurf wrote:IMHO it's PUWER. Not directly related but the guidance to LOLER states that multi-point couplings on the back of agricultural tractors are exempt from LOLER. IMHO that's because its purpose is only to gain clearance from the ground as opposed to achieving greater height.
;-)
Agree with Smurf BUT would add do a R/Assmt to cover the LOLER aspect with checks for wear/ tear and disposal upon finding they have carried loads exceeding design spec.
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I work in a college and we have motor vehicle students so I recently downloaded (free) the lateste version of HSG261. It states that 'Examination of vehicle supports
211 The safe operation of a vehicle support is dependent on its condition in use, and deterioration would lead to a significant risk to the operator or other worker. They should be inspected, as required by the Provision and Use of Work Equipment Regulations 1998 (PUWER),25 typically every 12 months. Keep a record of the results until the next inspection.'
Hope this helps
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Rank: Super forum user
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As has been said, 261 definitely points in the direction of PUWER, although I must confess that I am opretty sure that our insurer does an examination under LOLER. Prob a nice little 'earner' or am I being cynical?
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Rank: Forum user
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PUWER! ask this simple question when faced by equipment - does it raise, lower, or suspend a load? or in operation does it involve a change of level? if the answer is "no" PUWER 98 applies - still get it inspected - I would suggest every 6 mths and log the results iaw PUWER 98 semantics I know but they should be applying the correct Regs! contact me if yourequire moral support - good luck
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Rank: Forum user
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Agree that it is PUWER, they are not an item of lifting equipment. I don't believe load bearing has anything to do with it.
however to go off at a slight tangent and not wanting to hijack a thread, Safety Smurf has raised an interesting point about vehicle jacks coming under LOLER. Should they be subject to thorough examination?
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Rank: Super forum user
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I used this example because it was covered in a H&S publication a couple of years ago! To answer the question of whether or not it is covered by LOLER (or indeed why anything is covered by any particular piece of legislation) you have to ask yourself the question; "what is the aim of this legislation?"
Imho LOLER was written to reduce the number of accidents relating to lifting operations, namely; stuff falling on top of you!
I don't maintain pump-trucks under LOLER I do it under PUWER! When questioned I stand by my reasoning and have yet to be questioned further.
If a three point linkage on the back me Massy is exempt, how can a pumptruck or indeed a car jack (please remember that you shouldn't get under a car supported only by a jack) be subject?
Apply the spirit of the law before the word of the law!
Otherwise crowbars may be subject to LOLER!
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Rank: Forum user
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Morning all,
Car Lifts. Lifting equipment, be they worm gear, chain lift or hydro ram. Apply my question above - the answer is yes. Therefore the equipment lifts, the act of placing a vehicle on an extended lift and claiming its a stand I have also seen. The equipment is designed to perform a lifting operation, even if it is never used to perform a lift it still falls under LOLER.
Be careful with pump trucks - a tractor linkage, or airport gangway do not perform a lift, they are for height adjustment. Pump trucks and jacks perform a lifting operation.
Please consult a Lifting Examination Company if you are unsure - it takes minutes but can save your liberty!
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Rank: Super forum user
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A lifting equipment inspection company is likely to have a very biased opinion!
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Rank: Super forum user
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As usual some differing opinions which keeps a debate going. My opinion is that PUWER applies but not LOLER (Lifting Operations Lifting Equipment Regulations ) I think give the biggest clue. Challenge the Consultant to show you where LOLER applies? I also suggest a hand shovel must be LOLER in this case as unlike an axle stand it is used in a lifting capacity!
Regards Alex
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Rank: Forum user
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Afternoon all,
:) It would appear that some of you may have had bad experience of Lifting Equipment Companies :) Look for a company who when asked a question like the one above will make reference to both LOLER and PUWER. I agree there are profiteers out there, but take the time to check who gives you the confidence to employ them. Look at the quality of the certificate etc. profiteers usually come up short on the paperwork. Personally I would insist on "SAFE/NOT SAFE" to use statement and the qualifications of the examiner.
Finally, Hand tools come under PUWER! :)
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Rank: Super forum user
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Rank: Super forum user
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Rank: Super forum user
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Lewes,
Having read the documents that Phil as highlighted, to answer your original question, Axle Stands are covered by PUWER not LOLER.
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Rank: Forum user
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Just noticed my post to this querie has promoted me to 'forum user'
Not Friday yet but do I get a badge;-)
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Rank: Super forum user
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I have checked LOLER and all those web sites but still not sure about the hand shovel. I will have to ask my hard working groundworker mate on site in the morning!
It will be Friday then!
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Rank: Super forum user
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Hand shovels would be covered by DIRT ;-)
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