I work in a college and have worked on a few PEEP's recently for people with mobility issues/wheelchair users. Two things really:

1) I was wondering if you can cross the line in tems of E+D if you limit their presence to ground floor if they refuse to be transfered to an evac chair. ie. a studnet has specifically stated thatthey can't or won't be transferred to an evac chair in the event of an evacuation.

2) What's the situation in terms of designating people to evacuate them/operate the evac chairs? If you can engage someone that is with them constantly such as their carer or tutor, great. However, what if volunteers are on a different floor or part of the building or the individual needs 3-4 people to transfer them to the evac chair? You may need to summon people from nearby and you could effectively be asking them to enter part of a building on fire for example.

Has anybody else any experiences advice that they want to share?

Like you I work in a College and we have one two storey block and one four storey. We haven't had anybody refuse to be evacuated but then again we haven't had a situation to evacuate for real. For our drills the individual will wait at refuge point until directed to return to class

On all levels we have a dedicated refuge point and the individuals PEEP will indicate, depending on where they are, which point they should go to. Each student who has a PEEP has a dedicated buddy and stand by buddy who will wait at the refuge point until either told it is safe and they should go back to class or they are evacuated by Fire marshalls.

As you say we can't restrict individuals to ground floor but find this works.

Hi,
If you can relocate the individual, albeit with their approval, to the lower floors this is ideal.
Beware about moving staff to refuges and then expecting the Fire Service to rescue them. The Fire Service are reluctant to carry this out nowadays, the responsibility of evacuating all staff lays with the "responsible person". A well prepared PEEP should identify alternative ways for evacuating.
I think that the issue you have is, why is the individual reluctant to use an Evac chair ? Is it a training issue that they dont have confidence to use one. Maybe if you can organise training for a few individuals and try to encourage the student to participate in the training, the confidence will increase. If you have Evac chairs on the premises, you should be training with them on a regular basis anyway.
Hope that you get a solution to the problem.

Stel669

Check your inbox

Just lifted this from a policy I wrote earlier this year, It sparked a lot of interesting research into why people do the things they do in an 'emergency'. Hope its of use

3. In preparation of this policy ?????? has consulted the Department for Communities and Local Government publication; “Fire Safety Risk Assessment Supplementary Guide – Means of Escape for Disabled People” and will adopt the general principles therein where it is reasonable and appropriate to do so. Key principles of relevance to this policy are;
a. The term ‘Disabled’ in the context of this policy must not be read to mean disabled in the context or to the extent of being ‘registered disabled’.
b. The duty of care is not limited to the ‘permanently disabled’ and due account must be paid to those disabled temporarily.
c. The term ‘Disabled’ in the context of this policy should not be limited to mean only those persons who through physical incapacity do not have full motor function but should also include those suffering;
i. Limited cognitive ability (learning difficulties, autism, etc).
ii. Sensory deprivation (hearing and/or sight difficulties).
iii. Mental illness (dyslexia, orientation disorders, etc).
iv. Existing medical conditions that may be exasperated by smoke, panic, etc and that may subsequently limit or incapacitate them (panic attacks, asthma, hysteria – paralysis, etc).
d. Although not a disability, pregnancy may affect an expectant mother’s ability to escape unaided and so they must also be allowed to benefit from this policy.
e. Regardless of the nature of disability, it shall be the decision of each individual to decide whether or not they require or desire assistance in evacuating the building. The governing factor in this case being that the disabled must be given as equal an opportunity to manage their own evacuation as the able-bodied and that people are predisposed to manage their own fate.
f. Disabled people will often be more willing to do something to protect themselves in an emergency and may be willing to demonstrate extraordinary exertion in extremes.
From this point forward, the persons intended to benefit from this policy will be referred to as the “less able bodied”.

Thank you ALL peep's (sic). Fantastic response and reassuring that I'm not paranoid/over reacting.

My point was to actually get them to the final place of safety and not a temporary one (refuge).

Stel669

If you get you Disabled Person to a Place of Refuge and they will not get into the Evac Chair, then this information along with their location must be passed to the Fire Brigade. The Brigade will not 'Evacuate' the person concerned however they will "Rescue" them after a "Dynamic Risk Assessment". This process of Rescuing should alleviate any claims from 'Ambulance Chasers' in my humble opinion.

Light the Blue Touch Paper and Stand Back.......


Aye

Sigs

martinw, none.

I mentioned the HASAWA as a reminder for other possible situations where for some reason, an employee may refuse to evacuate. I thought my choice of wording would have conveyed that. Apologies if not.

cheers

I don't think the issue is refusal to evacuate. I believe it is that the person does not want to use an evac-chair, which is their right. It is up to the individual how they evacuate the building.

Cheers John, honestly just messing about.


Smurf, where do you draw the line? If as at times in the good old USA there have been issues with radical disabled groups deciding not to comply with regulations put in place; if you had more than one person refusing to evacuate, it would become a headache. Could it force you into a situation where you are pushed into a non-DDA acceptable scenario?

Where do you draw the line?

Martin

Understood. But would you be required to give information about the likelihood of person(s) unwilling to evacuate in the FRA, as life risk is off the scale, and/or give advance warning to the local FFs of the situation and the increased likelihood of their having to evacuate unwilling persons?

Is the person actually refusing to evacuate?

I thought that they were just refusing to use an evac chair.

Messy,
I would probably treat that as CAN'T be evacuated (like the bed ridden in a care home) and would up the protection, compartmentation (is that word or an Americanism?) and recommend sprinklers. However, I wouldn't want to be the one that had to go and ask for the budget to do it!