Rank: Forum user 
|
We have in place on site a car workshop service building.
In this car workshop, we have a mechanic pit, where the car / van is driving on to a hydralic lift and the mechanic can then lift to look at the undercarriage of the car / van.
My question is this, when the car van is put over the pit, approx 2 meter dept of pit and the mechanic is working in the pit, can this be considered a confined space?
Of course I have investigated the legal issues and guidence as set out be the HSE please find below
Statutory Instrument 1997 No. 1713
The Confined Spaces Regulations 1997
HSE INDG258.
I am just looking for opinions on this issue
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user 
|
not going to be the most helpful of replies :)
I am sure there is some HSE guidance on this as I have a friend who is a one man band farmer / mechanic and as you can guess loves to discuss safety :)
I am sure i sent him a guidance note about his pit!
I would say yes it is, as he knows from experiecne the build up of petrol vapours / CO is a real issue!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Forum user
|
I agree teh_boy that the build up of petrol vapors is a safety concern, also the safety issue of evacuation of pit in case of any emergency.....
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user 
|
Paul
It could be deemed a 'confined space' depending on the potential hazards. For example, if the engine was left running whilst the mechanic was in the pit it is not inconceivable that exhaust fumes could suffocate the person. therefore whether an area is deemed to be a confined space as per the regulations is purely contextual.
Ray
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Forum user
|
RayRapp,
Yes I deem it to be a confined space, to which the mechaincs and newly starting apprentices, will be recieving confined space training.
As you noted, there will be noxious fumes from the exhausts of the cars been worked on, when the mechanic will need to start the motor for checks on working parts.
I was looking for opinions on this issue
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Forum user
|
Paul-B
The organisation I work for have vehicle pits at all there locations all are deemed to be confined spaces for 2 reasons.
1. the pits have a limited air flow which is further restricted when a vehicle is over the top and the testing of the vehicles requires the engine to be running.
2. In many of the pits we have escape tunnels which also interlink pits.
Some of the more modern pits have air pressure systems fitted.
If you want to discuss please contact me - 01179523341
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user 
|
Paul,
The HSE in the above leaflet have identified the hazrds and control measures for working in pits below motor vehicles. I would advise that you make sure that your mechanics are trained in the use of these measures. Do not complicate the matter with general Confined space training.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
Paul, your original thread asked...'can this be considered a confined space?' And I answered the question.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user 
|
Paul
I have to agree that your response at #6 is 'puuzzling' to say the least. You did ask the question which Ray took the time and effort to answer. It seems fairly straightforward to me, you were asking whether it was a confined space and surely the opinions that are likely to be given will centre around that very question? What other opinions were you seeking?
Yes, I agree, could well be a confined space, it may not. The ONLY genuine answer will be found by looking at the situation and seeing if it fits or meets the various criteria listed in the regs/ACoP. In reality, it is quite likely to be a confined space at some times but not at others.
My opinion!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Forum user
|
Thank you for your opinions and Ray I fully appreciate your reply and that you did indeed answer the question posted, to which I also wished for other persons opinions on this issue and measures they may have put in place such as Martin Grays reply, to which we also have in place the air pressure system and LEV for removal of fumes / vapours ( I also may add that the design of escape tunnels which also interlink pits I will note and keep for future reference).
Redkin the reason for training, I am mainly considering this for the apprentices, we expect that there will be 4 apprentices begining in the New Year.
Phil your opinion is well recieved and maybe? I should have furthered the thread, by asking persons to expand on their opinions, to the issue of the thread I posted.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
teh_boy wrote:http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/priced/hsg261.pdf (page 50)
hmmm the HSE don't mention the words confined space!
They mention it twice on page 13! And of course the pit COULD be a confined space whether there is a car or van over the pit or not.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Forum user
|
I am sure we are agreed, that the mechanics pits are a confined space, to which I am treating them as such.
The HSG 261 guidence is very informative, as to Phil Rose mention of pg. 13 quote "asphyxiation, if the gas (which is heavier than air) escapes into a vehicle ■ ■ inspection pit or similar confined space;
The pgs. 50-55 HSG 261 provide very useful information on the inspection pits Teh-Boy pointed to the right direction for knowledge on this issue.
Thank you one and all for your contributions to this thread.
All the best
Happy Xmas & New Year
Paul
|
|
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.