A member of mine recently fell off his moped when riding towards the exit barrier of the work's car park as a result of his back wheel touched ice and kicked from underneath him. the colleague hurt his knee and damaged his bike.

I have been recently asking for them to grit the car park but in the mean time of these discussions concluding the above incident occurred

The employers are saying this is not an accident at work so there is no need to record this in the accident book, they are also saying they would claim through public liability

After reviewing the social securities act it doesn't state you must be carrying out a work place activity for the need of an incident to be recorded in the accident book.

Is this correct, should the incident be placed in the accident book?

Thanks
Nigel

Thanks Chris

They are stating they ain't recording it in the accident book because it was done in the car park and not whilst conducting a work task, they mentioned if they claimed for any loss they would claim of the public liability and not of the employers liability and this is also why they wouldn't record the accident in the book.

So to sum up the question I need answering is this, should this incident be recorded in the accident book?

Nigel

I first approached the business in september with documented emails requesting to speak of the issue although they had a meeting in my absence and failed to consult with me they decided not to grit the car park. I have obtained the planned area they want to grit.

This issue will also be discussed the the safety committee meeting next week.

For me the member has had a injury whilst on company property and therefore should be recorded in the accident book. Before the meeting next week I hope to have legal advise the our health and safety legal department.

Thanks again
Nigel

Hi Nigel,

the accident should definitely be recorded in the Accident Book as it happened on the employer's premises to an employee. Whether he was performing a work task at the time is completely irrelevant and a classic red herring.

I don't understand the employer's reluctance to put it in the accident book anyway. Doing so is not an admission of liability on their part. The issue of who pays if liability is established is one that will be settled by the insurers and most commercial premises insurances are combined employers / public liability policies in any case so this is also a red herring.

Nigel’s original post mentioned both damage to the moped and an injury, although he didn't actually say that there was any intention to claim for one or the other or either (albit his post title was about liability). While the ELI would cover injury and ill health claims as the result of work, I don't think that it is intended to or likely to cover the damage to the moped. Of course, neither claim will necessarily be successful unless the company admitted liability or they were found to be liable.

A work-related injury or illness is any injury or illness arising out of and during the course of employment. It matters not that the injured person had finished work and on their way out of the premises. End of story.

elfy I have to agree with RayRapp on this one. If the incident occured on the employers premises, and that extends to the external environment up to and including the threshold to LA roadways etc, then it should be recorded. If as you say the LA and HSE concurred that such an incident should not be reportable, then it can only be that it occurred out of the employers jurisdiction - if it was within the employers "premises" then they would have advised you wrongly IMHO.

Elfy

I do not understand your previous advice by LA/HSE but it may have been a misunderstanding, an accident at work does not automatically become RIDDOR reportable. As for your shaving analogy, it's so ridiculous I will not even bother making a comment. The botom line is - if you don't know what your are talking about, it's best not to criticise others...

Having had some experience of these types of incidents would say that you have to identify all the issues. For instance the issue of whether public or employer liability would depend on other issues such as do others apart from workers use the car park (e.g. visitors etc) as this could mean that it could be considered as public liability.

If the person had completed their work activities and signed off work (i.e. clocking off/ handed over) then they are not undertaking work activites as they are not at work (it doesn't matter where they are). You would still be prudent to ensure that an incident report is completed but they are unlikley to be able to lodge an industrial injury benefits claim with the DWP if they are not at work. However, that is not your decision so why worry? All you have to do is complete the form they send. It is upto them to whether they accept it or not.

As to whether this would fall under the RIDDOR requirements (if appropriate) it is a grey area and in these instances I have spoken directly with the HSE inspectors for advice (I used the infoline twice and got two different answers for the same issue!) on whether to report. Not all cases would result in a RIDDOR report. For example I work in the acute healthcare sector and we have a number of patients who fall within our hospitals and whilst they suffer injuries which could be within RIDDOR criteria these are not reportable for a number of different reasons. If you report a RIDDOR which the enforcing authority feel is not reportable then you will receive a response asking to justify reporting it otherwise you will get a visit from the Inspector!

Elfy, I did take exception to your post. If not critising me directly there was an implied criticism through your copying of my comments and your supercilious remarks.

The author of the original thread (Nigel) requested advice, I and others attempted to provide that advice based on our knowledge and experience. Whilst we may not always agree and there is always room for discussion on this forum, I don't think pure speculation was particularly helpful in this instance.

I am not sure where I picked up the definition of a work-related accident, it's just one of those things you remember through pursuing or dealing with accident claims and I have done both. However, a similar definition is used ubiquitously within RIDDOR, if you care to check it out.

I trust this will now end the matter.

Ray

What about safe access and egress?

Doesn't this come under that heading or have i missed something.

(Sorry to disturb you two chaps above)