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fiesta  
#1 Posted : 19 January 2010 16:44:45(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
fiesta

We are an Office fit-out company. Due to numerous failed attempts to get labour only subbies to read and sign the various risk assessments that we put in place to cover the work they will / may be doing when they get to site I am trying a new tack. I have create a booklet containing 25 (generic) Risk Assessments covering most of the works they are likely to undertake on site. I am posting it to all the subbies on our subbies list and asking them to read and sign each of the RAs. I know there are limitations to generic RA and I also appreciate that if I get my booklets returned and duly signed there is no guarantee that they will have actually been read but I looking for a workable solution in an imperfect world. Any resposes greatly appreciated. Andy Does anyone else use a system like this.? What kind of system do you use to ensure that subbies who may be on one site on day and another the next have read the relevant RAs ?
firesafety101  
#2 Posted : 19 January 2010 17:34:02(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

Who manages the work? Whoever that is should write the risk assessments and method statement. Not generic but specific to the work. Generic are OK and can be adapted but they must be relevant to the work in hand. If people sign generic assessments and then are asked to sign site specific as well you could get some resentment - duplication etc. There should be an Induction at the start of the job, everyone attends an induction on their first day on site, signs the record sheet to say they understand the rules etc. At that stage all risk assessemnts and method statements shoud be read by the relevant workers who should sign a sheet to say they understand. All signed risk assessments need to be kept on site for as long as the work is being carried out. Bottom line - don't sign the records - don't bother turning up.
DEC1888  
#3 Posted : 19 January 2010 17:50:06(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
DEC1888

I agree with Chris, although it has to be said that making sure they adhere to the control measures is another job entirely.I too have considered (am still considering creating a booklet with generic RAs , Coshh assessment on commonly used substances and other relevant information in it for operatives. I cant decide if this is a good idea or not and would welcome any feedback
Alex Petrie  
#4 Posted : 19 January 2010 18:34:11(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Alex Petrie

Hi Fiesta, Just a quick question... why don't you get your labour only subbies in for a training session on risk assessment. Set out your stall, telling them what you require them to do. If they're not going to buy into it, then they don't work for you any more. There seems to be this idea going round in construction that risk assessments are somehow superflous and big tough workies don't need them (not a view shared by safety guys, I know!). We require all subbies to provide us with assessments, which are then to be reviewed by the Project Manager prior to starting work. If this doesn't happen then myself or my colleagues duly note this during our inspections; any unsafe practice is then stopped and the reasons investigated. It's fine preparing a booklet etc for information, but to be honest I'd be more likely to send them on the Working Safely course and empower them to prepare their own risk assessments like they are required to do. A
bob youel  
#5 Posted : 20 January 2010 08:08:41(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
bob youel

it sounds like the subbies are managing your business as against the other way around and its a criminal offence not to cooperate; so I advise that your business starts managing as if your controlled [I am thinking that you manage them as against they do their own thing?] subbie has an accident you will need all the evidance you can get to mitigate any enforcement/claims If subbies will not cooperate change them; as they will have broken their contract with you
SteveL  
#6 Posted : 20 January 2010 08:45:52(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
SteveL

As you say that you are preparing the risk assesments then you have the responsability to ensure that they are understood and used. Part of the assessement should involve the workforce, they are the ones doing the work, do you work the same way as them, if not then they are just pieces of paper. try involving the work force, and throw out the normal do what i say or leave, the old style look at my power dont work any more,well it may whilst the work is tight, thats why most people when they are injured will sue, you treat them mean and as if you know better, because i am a safety manager, and they want revenge, and they will get it. Treat them as what they are workers earning your wages, because with out them you are not needed.
fiesta  
#7 Posted : 20 January 2010 09:10:17(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
fiesta

Thanks for all your responses. Just to clarify a few points - I'm talking about "labour only" subbies - usually self employed individuals. These people are not going to be writing their own Risk Assessments, and if they did I wouldn't trust them to be any good. We use many of them time and again and know a good percentage of them quite well. As I mentioned, I know the draw backs of generic Risk Assessments but in our line of work many tasks are repetitive, i.e. erecting a stud partition in building A is much the same as doing it in building B. There will obviously be site specific issues but these will be dealth with at the site induction. My booklet is about 50 pages long - 25 RAs. I don't want to ask these guys to have to read all these RAs on every job they go to, especially as they'll be very similar for each job. Bob - I know what you mean. Steve L - I see where you're coming from but I'm not going down the "do it or else" route. I've written an explanatory letter explaining our duty to them and their duty to themselves and other and our need to satify our client's requirements. I've expressed my willingness discuss any issues anyone might have.
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