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Maxwell16583  
#1 Posted : 21 January 2010 10:03:29(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Maxwell16583

I would be interested in any views on the subject of "Driving at Work" policies and their implementation. Virtually all the driving for the business area I am involved with is carried out by staff who use their own private vehicles for travelling to meetings. In carrying out research, it is relatively easy to obtain information and advice on setting policy for fleet vehicles, company cars and on drivers using their own vehicle for business use. However more emphasis seems to be placed on fleet / company vehicles that those owned privately.
While it is relatively easy to implement a system of vehicle checks and maintenance checks for fleet vehicles and company cars, I would be interested in hearing from anyone who has implemented similar for "privately owned cars used for business use", how they have done it, and how successful they have been.
amorris  
#2 Posted : 21 January 2010 13:32:49(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
amorris

Hi Maxwell,

Grey fleet - people who use their own vehicles for work use - are a more difficult area to control - because historically they have been ignored, so nobody is in the habit of managing them.

I have worked for a number of employers who chose to go about things different ways. Many Local Authorities rely on their staff using their own vehicles for work use (insectors, social, etc) and most have a rigourous system of asking for evidence of a driving licence. Once. Some are increasingly asking for proof of appropriate insurance (as most basic comprehensive cover is not sufficient) and checking driving licences every year. None, in my experience have really tackled the problem of MOTs, Servicing or even considering the implications of drivers on the roads. However, they had one thing right! The best way is to get HR/payroll on board and ensure that people do not get any mileage until they have submitted the documents - thats how the LA's always got my documents!

I have worked for a private sector employer who (rather than go for line manager checks on documents) asked employees to declare they have the correct documents in place. I am not convinced that worked well, and again, no consideration of the actual road risks.

In my opinion this needs to be a line managers responsibility - once per year get all doc's in - with the threat of no further payments until produced. Although I have yet to convince anyone in any of my employments, that I am correct!

Hope I got the right end of the stick, and that some of the info helped.
Maxwell16583  
#3 Posted : 21 January 2010 13:50:00(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Maxwell16583

amorris,

Many thanks - and you've certainly got the right end of the stick. My experience is similar to yours and I don't see the document issue as a particularly difficult hurdle to overcome. It's the aspect of managers ensuring, so far as is reasonably practicable, that the private vehicle being driven by their staff member is roadworthy. What about vehicles that don't require an MOT (only vehicles 4+ years old require such in Northern Ireland) Does an MOT Cert produced once a year meet the requirements of sfairp - a short time after a vehicle is MOT'd it may be unroadworthy. How do you develop a culture in an organisation that brings about ownership of a policy that expects managers to monitor the condition of staff's private vehicles. What about training and competence. The use of private vehicles for business use is usually written into the policy, but as you say seldom implemented.
Anyone experience otherwise.
David Bannister  
#4 Posted : 22 January 2010 11:09:33(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
David Bannister

Driving for work is likely to be the highest risk activity any of us do in any job (with very few exceptions), regardless of the condition of the vehicle or whether insurance is in place or whether the driver holds a license.

The great unknown is how our drivers (us) actually behave whilst driving and the great uncontrolled risk is the other drivers with whom we interact. Imposing some control on our driver behaviour by information, instruction and training, together with other management controls such as realistic journey times can reduce this risk and some of the more enlightened employers are showing excellent results in reducing their road risk costs by positive interventions.
amorris  
#5 Posted : 22 January 2010 12:47:44(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
amorris

Hi Maxwell,

They are all good questions that I would love to get stuck into, but it is that critical issue of culture that you mention that stops most companies even doing the most basic checks.

RoSPA do a set of leaflets and have a driver training site that has lots of info which I have based much of my opinions on and I guess I am waiting for a court case to establish what is RP. i would always push for evidence of servicing as well (because most insurance companies say you should have it serviced as part of the T&Cs, but alot of this is just guess work and my opinion!

Completely agree that most of the risk is the driver themselves and I prepared a RA that highlighted particular areas of concern - for extra training, such as high mileage, high risk groups, speeding points etc.

I also sent out occasional emails with DFT advice (e.g. severe weather driving, etc.)

A.

DaveDowan  
#6 Posted : 22 January 2010 15:18:13(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
DaveDowan

Hi all
Our company is almost totally grey fleet; we have established a series of measure for driver assessment and training (ROSPA's). Driving licence and insurance checks. If these criteria are not completed then employees cannot claim fuel expenses. This was agreed by our employee forum and is working well
Regards Dave
Invictus  
#7 Posted : 25 January 2010 08:22:57(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Invictus

Do you really need to do more. Set the policy and information out stating that all employee's must tell you of any changes to thier conditions i.e. Points on licence, no longer have bussiness class insurance, car failed MOT, do not suffer from any health issue's that may prevent them holding a licence. also state that they must keep the car in a road worthy condition in line with the insurance recommendations this would entail tyres being checked, etc.
safetogo  
#8 Posted : 25 January 2010 09:14:15(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
safetogo

For excellent resources and information try this link, http://www.brake.org.uk/fleetsafetyforum.

Brake offer free road safety training for fleet and other road users.

A thought for ascertaining vehicles are roadworthy, many tyre depots offer a free basic safety safety check on cars. Why not introduce a policy that requires submission of safety check evidence every 6 months? It costs nothing to you and nothing to your employees save half an hour of their spare time.
Invictus  
#9 Posted : 25 January 2010 10:20:19(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Invictus

Alternatively, have them carried out in work time, saving your spare time for yourself.
Brett Day SP  
#10 Posted : 25 January 2010 22:08:52(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Brett Day SP


"A thought for ascertaining vehicles are roadworthy, many tyre depots offer a free basic safety safety check on cars. Why not introduce a policy that requires submission of safety check evidence every 6 months? It costs nothing to you and nothing to your employees save half an hour of their spare time."


I would never, ever go down this route, there are several reasons:

An objection I can see from employees is that from a RTA point of view a valid MoT is sufficient so if the company wants additional checks and that much control perhaps the company should provide the vehicle? It's one I've come across before.

Most companies that offer these free checks exclude commercial / work vehicles and will charge for the checks especially of they see the same prson and vehicle coming back every six months.

Likewise having used a nationwide tyre fitting company I've had a lot of uneeded work pointed out for including:
damaged tyres (when the tyres were a few days old)
Worn disks and pads that HAD to be replaced as they were dangerous (in fact they had just been changed on a major service).
Blown exhaust (no problems found when independantly inspected).

One certain company did feature extensively on watchdog for giving staff bonuses for any additional work or parts sold. It is claimed that this has ceased but I have experienced upselling from these companies long since the practice was claimed to have ceased.

If the company wants a six monthly check, why not arrange a contract with a local MoT station for testing only (make it clear that they will not recieve any additional work) that the employee can go to give an employee no and the company pays?
safetogo  
#11 Posted : 29 January 2010 15:46:20(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
safetogo

Ok, I accept that there are good and bad tyre depots, I personally have my car checked serviced every year although I do not reach the 16000 mile service interval mileage. I also take it along to the tyre depot which supplies all our company vehicle tyres at the intervening 6 month interval to verify that all safety critical components are working correctly.

The MOT certificate does not warrant a vehicles condition other than its condition at the time of testing. Many vehicles need work carrying out before an MOT can be issued.

Given that an increasing number of drivers cannot carry out even basic checks on their vehicle before they drive away, a free safety check once a year plus an MOT equals 2 safety checks per year.

Remember, 16000 miles is a lot of wear on our pot holed roads. If a fleet operator decided to maintain their vehicles only once a year with no intermediate safety checks VOSA would be inundated with defective vehicles at roadside checkpoints.

If the vehicle being used for work purposes is new of course it will not have an MOT for three years.
Brett Day SP  
#12 Posted : 29 January 2010 22:21:04(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Brett Day SP


safetogo,

Not so much a case of good and bad depots the company I cited (who I don't think I can mention under the rules of the forum) had the practice I mentioned as company policy so it would matter little as to which individual depot you went to.

As mentioned above, using the tyre depots for the checks would be specifically excluded under the t&C's of the 'free' checks (I have already been down this route after a suggestion and checked) so in effect this isn't a free service, the employee would have to pay unless some other arrangement was in place.

You are correct regarding your comment about the MoT, however, the Road Traffic Act will, in certain conditions accept an MoT as proof of roadworthyness - hence my comment about employees objections.

"Given that an increasing number of drivers cannot carry out even basic checks on their vehicle before they drive away, a free safety check once a year plus an MOT equals 2 safety checks per year."

Which quite frankly is not enough - A variety of bodies - IAM, RoSPA ROADA, Hendon all make it quite clear that basic POWER checks should be undertaken at least weekly (or before a long journey), rather than relying on external checks it may be more appropriate and far more useful to provide a short training session of around 30 minutes to run through what checks should be made and how to make those checks.

My own opinion is that the driving schools should be teaching students this and the test should be testing for this in addition to the other driver skills, but until then it may be more practical to train those who drive for work.

I've run quite a few sessions like this for employees and with a group of 15-20 I can run through in 30 minutes, including giving everyone a chance to practice.


SBC  
#13 Posted : 30 January 2010 09:00:29(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
SBC

Organisation I work for requires all staff driving over 5000 miles a year to have driving training, with refreshers every two or three years.
Brett Day SP  
#14 Posted : 30 January 2010 16:44:51(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Brett Day SP


SBC, out of interest does the training provider cover vehicle checks as part of thier initial and refresher training ?
safetogo  
#15 Posted : 01 February 2010 11:10:51(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
safetogo

"Given that an increasing number of drivers cannot carry out even basic checks on their vehicle before they drive away, a free safety check once a year plus an MOT equals 2 safety checks per year."

Which quite frankly is not enough - A variety of bodies - IAM, RoSPA ROADA, Hendon all make it quite clear that basic POWER checks should be undertaken at least weekly (or before a long journey)

Brett,

I totally agree that two safety checks per year is insufficient.

The point I was trying to get across is two safety checks are better than one or no safety checks at all. When I was a young man, we learnt to carry out safety checks on motor vehicles from our fathers, who post war, had to be able to carry out basic maintenance to stay on the road.

The point about the company paying for safety checks to be carried out would totally depend on the company policy relating to payment for using ones own vehicle.

Some companies pay mileage allowance at a pitiful 20p per mile, others may pay 40p plus per mile. In one case I would say fuel costs are being covered in the other an element of maintenance is covered.

eg. A vehicle travels 50 miles per gallon of fuel, at 40p per mile which equals a payment of £20.00 for fuel expenditure of £5.60.
If an employee begrudges paying a little of this sum out for a safety check which may save not only his life but also that of anyone else who may be affected by his failures then what an insular society we now have.
I also agree with you that safety checks should be included in instruction and testing of new drivers. I personally have taken 3 driving tests over the years for differing categories of vehicle without such learning.

In my industry, it is expected that a driver check a vehicle before first use and when taking a vehicle over from another driver during the course of their duty, all driving staff are trained to carry out walk round checks in accordance with VOSA guidance with both theoretical and practical elements which is why statistically passenger transport is the safest form of road transport in the UK.

The bottom line is however, we All have a duty of care to ourselves and anyone affected by our actions. Therefore to apply that duty of care I need to ensure the vehicle I drive is fit for purpose and fit for use every time I use it, irrespective of whos going to pay the bill.


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