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BigRab  
#1 Posted : 25 January 2010 16:13:47(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
BigRab

I am trying to find out if there is any sector specific guidance for fire safety at filling stations and in perticular whether there is any requirement (other than the general one in RRFSO) for filling stations to have an automatic, monitored alarm system. Given the potential consequences of a fire at a filling station it would seem an obvious requirement but I know that many have no such provision.

Any ideas please?
Heather Collins  
#2 Posted : 26 January 2010 10:21:52(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Heather Collins

Try here http://www.hse.gov.uk/LAU/lacs/65-58.htm

It directs you to a site which requires free registration. I haven't registered so i don't know for sure if the publication contains the advice you require but it looks like a good start!
firesafety101  
#3 Posted : 26 January 2010 12:49:23(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

There will be a local licensing authority, i.e. the council, who will determine requirements at filling stations.

Advice can be gained from the local fire brigade who may be the enforcer.

If you think about it petrol stations are usually manned, the most common problem would be a small spillage from someone at the pump. In this case the spillage will be immediately obvious so can be absorbed using dry sand and the attendant informed.

I suggest contacting the local council for further info.
peter gotch  
#4 Posted : 26 January 2010 12:56:55(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

HSG146 "Dispensing petrol: Assessing and controlling the risk of fire and explosion at sites where petrol is stored and dispensed as a fuel" can be downloaded from HSE website.

P
Heather Collins  
#5 Posted : 26 January 2010 13:53:43(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Heather Collins

Really Peter? I can't find it.... Wasn't this one a casualty of the DSEAR Regs and HSE's subsequent decision not to review and upgrade most of their specific petroleum guidance?

There's a guidance leaflet for employees dispensing petrol and the HSE page on fire and explosion refers to this publication - APEA/IP Code of practice for the design, construction and operation of petrol filling stations - but HSG146 seems not be available any longer?

peter gotch  
#6 Posted : 26 January 2010 16:01:14(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Hi Heather

X-Files at work. It was on the HSE website at lunchtime today, but has mysteriously disappeared!

There is however also a DSEAR ACOP on unloading petrol.

P

Holbrook42275  
#7 Posted : 26 January 2010 16:31:26(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Holbrook42275

You might also want to try UKPIA ( United Kingdom Petrol Industry Association ) who may have more information.
pete48  
#8 Posted : 26 January 2010 21:57:09(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
pete48

Design, construction, modification, maintenance and decommissioning of filling stations (2nd edition)
ISBN 0 85293 419 X

This is the "blue book" which from memory covers just about everything to do with what the title says. Available from any good technical book source.

There may well be a later edition than the 2nd.

"The Energy Institute" site still references this edition as do most of Fire Brigades sites.
Ron Hunter  
#9 Posted : 27 January 2010 13:26:39(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

A fully automatic system would need detectors. Where would you put them? Greatest "risk" is outside in the open air (albeit usually under a canopy).

Whereas the fire risk in PFS is higher, so the controls tend to be better, certainly in terms of trained supervision (manned PFS), isolation of electrical supply, breakaway nozzles, dispensing limits, flame arrestors, drainage interceptors, stock reconciliation, ground & interstitial monitoring, double-skinned tanks and pipes and other leak detection/prevention measures, 24/7 specialist support from suppliers and others etc, etc.
I recall some years ago taking a group of fire fighters around a local retail Petrol Filling Station some years ago. They were unaware of many of the control measures I mention, to the extent they would attempt to "bund" any spillage they encountered (using sand etc.) rather than flush it to the interceptor.
martinw  
#10 Posted : 27 January 2010 14:30:11(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
martinw

HSSUK

I have registered with the CFOA and seen the guide, it is pretty comprehensive. Worth taking the time to look.
BigRab  
#11 Posted : 28 January 2010 12:08:46(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
BigRab

Thanks to all who contributed,

I have seen the guide also but it does not mention any requirement for fire alarms. i am of course aware that the type of fire warning device is to be decided by risk assessment but the RRFSO and equivalent Scottish legislation does specify that a means of warning must be provided.

With regard to the siting of detectors you have to think out of the box a bit here. When I said petrol filling stations I wasn't thinking only about the storage and dispensing of petrol but of the ancillary activities, e.g. motor vehicle servicing and repair, paint spraying etc. that often go with it. My thoughts are that a fire starting in the workshop (or out of hours in the garage buildings) could quickly get out of control and affect the filling station. If the filling station is affected it would have an impact on surrounding businesses and residential properties.

It seems to me that the licensing authorities or the FRS ought to assess the likelihood of this scenario and impose a condition on the license that requires the installation of a monitored automatic alarm. At the moment, as I say, there does not seem to be any such requirement but only the rather vague tool of risk assessment. That this is the responsibility of the occupier/owner leaves them in a position where thay have to weigh finacial self interest against a hypothetical risk. Many will take a stab at the risk being low unless they are told otherwise by the FRS.
BigRab  
#12 Posted : 28 January 2010 12:26:06(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
BigRab

Ron. you say "A fully automatic system would need detectors. Where would you put them? Greatest "risk" is outside in the open air (albeit usually under a canopy)."

Interestingly enough I did see a clip on you tube the other day which I think was of an Australian filling station where they had a gas flooding system under the canopy. Can't find the clip now but will post a reference if I do find it.

Ron Hunter  
#13 Posted : 28 January 2010 13:40:14(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

Sometimes a tough call for the enforcers this area. Mention is made above of wider & related activities, including motor vehicle repair. This brings acetylene bottles into the equation, with the wide exclusion zone issues in a fire/emergency situation and the impact on adjacent businesses and householders. It wasn't that long ago you needed a licence to keep acetylene (and calcium carbide too).
I guess there is always a temptation to revert to prescriptive regimes, however the political climate has tended to favour a deregulatory approach for some time now. Licence conditions must be reasonable, and can be challenged. Also not uncommon to have a vehicle repair workshop immediately adjacent to a PFS but under different ownership and obviously outwith the curtilage & control of the licensed premises.

An under-canopy gas flooding system seems rather scary in the context of a retail PFS, particularly given the number of members of public potentially involved - including small children strapped into car seats etc.!
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