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Dave C  
#1 Posted : 22 February 2010 19:29:56(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Dave C

We have contractor on site who carries out work for us 4 days a week several weeks year. One of his employees had accident and just come to light though we at H and S dept still not formally notified and details sketchy. Employee's injury is over 3-day. Should he as his employer report under RIDDOR, or should we insist that he does, or take this action ourselves when we have the details?
Heather Collins  
#2 Posted : 22 February 2010 19:40:32(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Heather Collins

This was on your site Dave I assume? The legal duty to report is with his employer, not with you. Assuming it was on your site what I'd do is investigate what happened with the help of the contractor and the injured person if possible. Agree what happened, write it up and give him a copy of your accident report stating clearly on it that he has a duty to report this to HSE. Some contractors in my experience either don't know this or don't know how to do it or are a bit scared of the whole business. Help him out and he'll probably report it with no problem.
Dave C  
#3 Posted : 22 February 2010 19:47:19(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Dave C

Heather Thanks ever so much, my thoughts exactly and yes, on our site. I am sure he wouldn't know how to report but I'm sure I can explain reasons for doing so and even help him out with completion and forwarding of F2508. Appreciated. Dave
JayJay  
#4 Posted : 22 February 2010 19:50:32(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
JayJay

Hi Dave, Unfortunately you're in the situation where the subcontractor has failed to report the accident to you as per your site procedures and probably what your site induction informed them to do. Time has now elapsed where you could have carried out an accident investigation and made any recommendations both to the subcontractor and anyone else on your site. I would insist that he reports it under RIDDOR (If Reportable ) and provides you with a copy of the F2508 and their accident book entry, you could also insist on them carrying out their accident investigation and providing you with the report once it's complete. When did the accident occur ? Have they provided anymore information since regarding the accident at work ? What was he doing to injure himself ? What is the injury ? It may not be reportable ! Sorry to be a bit vague but i probably know as much about the injury as you do.
Heather Collins  
#5 Posted : 22 February 2010 19:51:24(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Heather Collins

You're welcome Dave - I have had the exact same thing happen and once it was explained, the contractor had no issue with reporting, just not a clue how to do it!
Steve Sedgwick  
#6 Posted : 22 February 2010 20:24:58(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Steve Sedgwick

Dave you have the advice on RIDDOR from the above posts but you need to start thinking about liabilities with regard to claims as this could rest with the contractors employer or your company. It doesnt sound like it from your description but if your company supervises, provides the tools and equipment to this contractor then it will most likely be your companies liability particularly if he was working under your companies risk assessment. You need to thoroughly investigate this to ensure that liability is fairly apportioned and to satisfy yourself that the accident did actually happen as described. Steve
Canopener  
#7 Posted : 22 February 2010 20:26:28(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Canopener

If an employed contractor i.e. he/she is an employee of another employer, then as Heather said - it is his/her employers duty. If it is a self employed contractor then I think you will find that it is your duty.
Heather Collins  
#8 Posted : 22 February 2010 21:20:38(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Heather Collins

Quite right Phil but the original post did say it was the contractor's employee. Worth being absolutely sure that is the case Dave. While I agree with Steve on the importance of investigation I would say it's important to investigate properly because you want to learn from the incident and ensure there is no recurrence rather than to make sure you have a defence against claims. As for apportioning liability this is not an issue for you - your insurers will sort this out if it's ever needed, provided you have done the investigation you should be doing anyway. We do seem to have an unhealthy focus on liability in this forum recently don't we? (not aimed at you Steve - it's just a sign of the times!)
Juan Carlos Arias  
#9 Posted : 22 February 2010 21:26:06(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Juan Carlos Arias

We use agency workers, they have a large enough employer, however, any accidents they have whilst on our site are investigated and reported by us. Although they could perfectly report the RIDDOR accidents themselves, I would rather report it myself knowing that the report will be made in the correct manner. If for any reason a claim arises from the accident, it would be directed to us and not the agency company. There is a section on the form to inform if the IP doesn't work for you. If they had an accident and did not report it to you in time. I would be making my discontent known with the agency management in a recorded manner (obviously if I had previously made aware of my accident reporting procedures)
Steve Sedgwick  
#10 Posted : 22 February 2010 22:31:22(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Steve Sedgwick

We have agreement. Phil, I agree with you. I was alluding to labour only type contractors where our companies hire labour from some of our larger contractors or agencies. Maybe Dave C could expand on the details. Heather, I agree with you. If we prevent accidents in the first place then there is no claim to bother about and good accident investigations prime objective is to prevent a re-occurrence. Juan, I agree with you too, I operated these principles with agency for some years, I did not want the contractors or agency reporting their versions of events to the HSE. It ensured the report was done anyway But if you read your contract with the agency and research some case law I think that you would find that the agency have very little HS responsibility to their contracted staff so long as they have vetted them properly for the job. However. I find that these days less than 50% of (initial) reports of injuries are only 50% true. It is only through very good accident investigation do you get closer to the truth. In some cases the injury already existed or did not happen as described, sometimes the injured person was doing something he did not want to admit. Sometimes reports are totally fraudulent but thats for a new post I expect. Steve
Dave C  
#11 Posted : 23 February 2010 19:15:40(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Dave C

Thank you everyone for taking an interest in my "predicament". I can confirm that it was the contractor's employee who suffered the injury on our premises whilst carrying out their work and I am still trying to get to the bottom of it. I have arranged meeting with said contractor who has been providing his services for us for a few years now. On the infrequent past occasions where one of his employees has sustained an accident I have been notified quickly so the procedure to inform us is understood. I hope it will be a case of reiterating procedures and sorting this out asap. Thanks again your views and advice which were much appreciated.
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