Welcome Guest! The IOSH forums are a free resource to both members and non-members. Login or register to use them

Postings made by forum users are personal opinions. IOSH is not responsible for the content or accuracy of any of the information contained in forum postings. Please carefully consider any advice you receive.

Notification

Icon
Error

Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
firesafety101  
#1 Posted : 01 March 2010 19:22:45(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

Looking for opinions on carrying a disabled person in her wheelchair. The wheelchair user was in a school building and taken up a flight of stairs on a stair lift, the type that is available when needed and hinges out from the side wall to form a platform for the wheelchair. When returning, heading for the exit the stair lift failed to operate so a couple of maintenance men were enlisted to carry the wheelchair user, in her wheelchair down the eight stairs. A risk assessment was in place and mentions use of the lift but not carrying down.
stephendclarke  
#2 Posted : 01 March 2010 19:58:01(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
stephendclarke

Hi, There is an HSE report rr314 that looks at manual handling involving carry chairs. Also there is a fire safety risk assessment supplementary guide covering means of escape for disabled people. It looks at various options such as evac chairs which many wheelchair users don't like, carry down in own wheelchair, carry down in office chair etc. Depends on so many factors e.g. training/regular retraining of staff, weight of wheelchair e.g. if electric v.heavy. Those wheelchair users that I have advised prefered the stairmate which is a sort of universal powered caterpillar device that fits on any wheelchair but costs £2000-3000 if memory serves. I would say carry down in own wheelchair is the least acceptable as probably most likely to result in injury for all concerned. Steve
xRockape  
#3 Posted : 01 March 2010 20:05:23(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
xRockape

Was an on site RA carried out before the lift and were the two volunteers MH trained? If not and an accident has occured or is yet to be reported then you could be found at fault in any subsequent investigation. Also i am pretty certain that this type of lift falls to LOLER and a thorough Examination should be carried out every 6 months!! Hope this helps
firesafety101  
#4 Posted : 01 March 2010 20:42:25(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

The lift was serviced the day before, sods law it would break down a day after the service. Risk assessment carried out and states lift to be used - no mention of carry down. The wheel chair is not designed for carrying down, the wheel come off easily and there are no safe hand holds. No risk assessment done specifically for the carry down. School caretakers are manual handling trained, and their risk assessment states to carry wheelchair users down in wheelchair if lift fails. Possibly was not these people involved but two strangers? There is another regular lift not far away, working today but don't know if it was operational the day in question.
boblewis  
#5 Posted : 01 March 2010 20:57:05(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
boblewis

Chris Afraid the old Lack of Maintenance applies here:-) If it fails it was not adequately maintained - even though serviced the previous day - there is much case law on this. The real question is actually posed by you yourself - why was the lift ignored as a mechanism for getting people downstairs? Some inspectors could push lack of adequate RA here if they felt so inclined Bob
xRockape  
#6 Posted : 01 March 2010 21:06:37(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
xRockape

People get confused between a service and a thorough examination(TE), they are different animals a TE is normally done every 6 months by an indipendant engineer/ insurance company for this type of equipment. The rest of your post above indicates a lack of thorough RA and control messures/ training. Obviously i am not in your shoes and as such dont have all the facts. But i would check that you have regular TEs in place.
Steve Sedgwick  
#7 Posted : 01 March 2010 22:23:07(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Steve Sedgwick

But the key issue to me is that the emergency arrangements failed. Probably due to an inadequate risk assessment? These arrangements should have been made at the planning stage before installing the stairlift; maybe that proper emergency arrangements did exist but were not known or trained. I find it hard to believe that a stair lift would be installed for wheel chair users without thinking how we would get the person out in the event of an emergency eg fire or lift breakdown Chris did the lift have a battery back up and or manual operation facility, most modern stairlifts do. As xRockape states we do not have all the background information Steve
Ron Hunter  
#8 Posted : 02 March 2010 00:24:34(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

The Risk Assessment was neither suitable or sufficient - it failed to recognise foreseeable emergencies such as power failure - a highly likely outcome in the event of fire. A real fire: what then?
ocwilliams1  
#9 Posted : 02 March 2010 08:29:45(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
ocwilliams1

Chris, Consideration is required for staff/ visitors that require the use of a wheelchair, and a means of escape must be provide from higher floors. (Evacuation chairs, carry down), for staff and regular visitors a PEEPs (Personal Emergency Evacuation Plans) The plan must be tailored to their individual needs and is likely to give detailed information on their movements during an escape. Also standards plans for occasional visitors should be developed. And now onto the question regarding carrying down. An important issue to consider when planning means of escape for people who require carry-down by four people is that the width of the stair will need to be sufficient for all of the team to move freely and safely. A good document to look at is Means of Escape for Disabled Persons Guidance. Link below. http://www.communities.g...iresafetyassessmentmeans This should give you all the guidance and specifically discuses carrying down procedures, also information on undertaking PEEPS. Regards, Oliver
firesafety101  
#10 Posted : 02 March 2010 09:35:57(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

Oliver, thanks for that I've just ordered a copy, only a fiver, worth having. I don't know if there was/is a PEEP in place, nor do I know the method used to carry the wheelchair/user down, but surely any carry down is only for "in case of emergency"? Not just because the lift won't work. Ron - a real fire (is there any other (kind)? I would expect them to carry down if no other available method. I would thank them for it.
Ron Hunter  
#11 Posted : 02 March 2010 17:11:14(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

Chris, the point I and others are making here is that such readily foreseeable emergencies must be anticipated and planned for. There should be temporary fire-safe refuge for the non-ambulant (and people tasked with assisting the non-ambulant to that refuge) so that rescuers (who also have to be nominated and trained) can re-enter a building in comparative safety to complete the evacuation. In the above respects a risk assessment cannot be said to "be in place". p.s. "real fire" versus "drill". Drills are good to identify shortcomings in your arrangements - provided an actual fire doesn't beat you to it! Hence the importance of R/A.
firesafety101  
#12 Posted : 02 March 2010 21:18:18(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

Ron I wasn't trying to be funny, just can't help it really. The main point of the original topic is that the carry down happened in spite of there not being an emergency. I would expect emergency preparedness to take effect during an alarm but this was just a case of the stair lift didn't work so let's carry down. I don't think there was thought for alternative ways out. The H&S for the LEA is in support of the procedure even though they do not know the facts. If you imagine carying a wheelchair by using the four main rigid corner supports, it would have to be around chest height to be safe for the carrying persons, especially down stairs. Just imaging how high that would put the wheelchair user?
Alex Petrie  
#13 Posted : 02 March 2010 23:00:46(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Alex Petrie

Can I suggest researching the use of Evac Chairs? They would appear to be a purpose-built solution to the issue being discussed. If you need any other info on the above please contact me. A
Users browsing this topic
Guest
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.