Hello, I'm hoping to get advice/guidance from anyone who has knowledge re: safe systems of work for litter picking and grass cutting on roads and dual carriageways. I've studied the Safety at Street Works and Road Works Code of Practice (The Red Book), The Traffic Signs Manual (Chapter 8 [for my sins]) and the Interim Advice Note 115/08 "Guidance for Works on the Hard Shoulder and Road Side Verges on High Speed Dual Carriageways". I am aware a site specific assessment is necessary but I have a number of specific questions that don't seem to be answered by these documents. Elimination of hazard is not practical and has been considered. Safe working distances from live lane - All documents refer to this as being 0.5m at 40mph or less and 1.2 m from 50mph and above. 1. Is 1.2m measured from the road edge on a dual carriageway or the white line (rumble strip)? 2. I can appreciate the necessity to close the outer lane (overtaking lane) or use a crash cushion on dual carriageways when working on the central reservation, but is it absolutely necessary to close the inner lane or use a crash cushion when mobile working on inner grass verges? The Interim Advice Note 115/08 document refers to short duration stops (15 mins) and that no advance warning signs or temporary traffic management is required. Litter picking and grass cutting do not strictly fit that category as they are continually moving. There will be points at which, when litter picking or grass cutting, entering the 0.5m or 1.2m safe distance is unavoidable but only for a short duration. I have seen workers use advanced warning signing of litter picking/grass cutting activities on dual carriageways (taking into consideration lines of sight) and then no other physical protection has been used. Is this an acceptable practice? Thank you for any enlightenment on the matter. Regards - Cakey

1: I tend to look at road edge as the start point 2: I am afraid its down to your risk assessment to justify your actions as some times its needed others its not - overall we tend to use a / some moving vehicle/s as the crash cusion and we do not always close the inner lane 3: The Interim Advice Note 115/08: Again its down to your risk assessment as you can die in 15 mins and the advice note is not law nor an ACOP and if there was an accident you would have to produce your RA - 4: I do not regard any distance as a safe distance unless the areas is fully barriered by a suitable barrier. That said some work is unavoidable even if only for a short duration and the use of advanced warning signing of litter picking/grass cutting activities without further barriers can be suitable but again its got to be reasonable and practicable and account for the specific situation as people drift into using such signage on every occasion as against installing proper barriers

Thank you both for your valued responses. Much appreciated. Edwardh - I tend to agree that the edge of a traffic lane is marked by the line marking and therefore the separation distance should be measured from here. Out of interest do you think that this is the same for dual carriageways where this area isn't considered a hard shoulder? You raise a good point re: the risk of putting out signage. However, according to the red book which is an ACoP, advanced warning signs and end signs should be placed to warn oncoming traffic of work activities and there should be intermittent ones if the works exceed 1 mile. I believe it is possible to maintain a separation distance of 0.5m at 40mph or less and 1.2 m from 50mph and above. However, there will be infrequent times where a piece of litter needs retrieving that is in this zone and your suggestions of monitoring traffic, working towards, etc would work. The other query I have is relating specifically to cutting grass next to the road. At some point, whether on 30mph roads or 50mph roads the plant/machinery cutting the grass must encroach the stated separation zones. Does the separation distance include the machinery or just personnel? E.g. The person operating a ride on mower would be further away from the road edge that the cutting blades. Common sense suggests oncoming traffic could clip the machine encroaching the separation zone. Are additional controls necessary considering the minimal duration the machine is possibly in this zone and the additional risks/cost of lane closure and/or use of a crash cushion? I realise the stock answer to all this is to carry out a site specific risk assessment but in reality there are generic aspects such as these that I'm hoping to find answers to. If Edward or Bob could shed some more light on this I'm eternally grateful. Are there any others out there also - private or Local Authority that have any suggestions please. Any further advice is greatly appreciated.

Thanks but it isn't practical to close one lane of all roads. My question relates to 30mph roads and 50mph dual carriageways. On A roads there are areas where there is grass that needs maintaining that will require encroaching the said 0.5 or 1.2m separation distances I previously quoted.

Edwardh - many thanks for your input. I shall revisit IAN115/08 and advise accordingly.

Phil - I've never seen a mix and match of colours. I've never heard of a particular reason behind this. My understanding is yellow and/or orange can be used for highways. Which other similar thread are you following as I'd be interested to have a look? Thank you Cakey

Thanks Phil. I know the feeling; the 'to do' list never seems to get smaller.

RP - The dual carriageways in question are 50mph but the question also relates to 30mph roads. As said in previous posts there is no hard shoulder like on a motorway but there is a white line (rumble strip) between kerb and traffic creating a separation distance. As said in previous postings the separation distances are 0.5m for 30mph and 1.2m for over 40mph. As edwardh stated "The guidance in IAN 115/08 takes into account reduced risks from shorter durations of exposure and proposes precautions suitable for different lengths of exposure. It does however specify an absolute minimum separation of 0.5m and says that if that cannot be achieved other TM [outside the scope of 115/08] will be required. The implication being that if your work requires you to compromise the 0.5m minimum then you need to look at lane closure."