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safetyman2010  
#1 Posted : 22 March 2010 11:20:44(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
safetyman2010

Hi, We have just had a significant fire in our bolier room that appears to have started within the air compressor equipment. Does anyone know if there is minimum requirements for fire suppression or this type of equipment? The equipment has been destroyed and damage to the surrounding room and electrical supplies.

The main electrical switcgear room for main electrical supply is next to the room and could only be isolated after the fire was dealt with by fire bridage. Is there a requirement for remote isolation of electrical supplies from outside a building in the event of a fire?

Finally under RIDDOR it states 'Explosion or fire (19) An explosion or fire occurring in any plant or premises which results in the stoppage of that plant or as the case may be the suspension of normal work in those premises for more than 24 hours, where the explosion or fire was due to the ignition of any material.'

I take this means 'plant' as the machine itself and not the premises?

Thanks, Gavin
safetyman2010  
#2 Posted : 22 March 2010 12:52:42(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
safetyman2010

Hi guys........any advice on this matter?
firesafety101  
#3 Posted : 22 March 2010 13:13:02(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

I'll have a go..........................

I don't think there is minimum requirement for that equipment, your fire risk assessment will do that for you, if the assessor is fully up to date on the type of equipment.

Standard requirement would be fire alarm, smoke detectors etc.

Isolating equipment should be available but not necessarily outside the room, I suppose - again the fire risk assessment would cover this. You can provide a fusible link type mechanism for isolating power to individual risks. The type with a heavy lever that drops when the fuse melts.

You are correct about "plant" being the machinery.

If the fire meant the premises were closed for the duration it would mean a report under RIDDOR.

I hope I have been of some use to you?
safetyman2010  
#4 Posted : 22 March 2010 14:22:02(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
safetyman2010

Hi Chris,

Thank you for your response. I have recently had a fire risk assessment completed for site by 3rd party but it did not include this area or equipment. ???

I'm conducting the investigation at present and have made the telephon report the HSE to inform them prior to sending the RIDDOR report. It appears that it was a mechanical failure that has caused the fire but i have requested we bring in the manufacturers and service contractors to provided specialist advice. The equipment was serviced only 2 weeks ago and all other services as per PSSR on air receivers are current. The other main issue i can see is there is no suppression or detection within this area. The electrical supply could have been isolated from transformers external to the area apparently.
Heather Collins  
#5 Posted : 22 March 2010 15:18:08(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Heather Collins

I would be concerned if your fire risk assessor had not at least mentioned plant rooms at all in the assessment. These are classic "out of sight" areas where a fire can develop undetected for a considerable time. At the very least I would have expected an assessor to note the existence of a plant room or rooms, comment on the housekeeping and internal condition of the area, comment on the fire separation and comment on the (lack of) automatic detection.

Might be wise to check what else your assessor missed...
PhilBeale  
#6 Posted : 22 March 2010 15:23:55(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
PhilBeale

Dependant on the premises there may be no requirmenet at all for fire detection. But given the fact you have air compressors on site then we are talking a substantial premises the bare minimum would be manual call points through out the premises. Do you have smoke detectors else where on the premises as plant rooms would be one area i would expect to be covered (or where a fire could start undetected). as for fire suppression then no unless you already have fire suppression on site then it would be wise to extend it to the plant-room but otherwise you would rely on someone spotting the fire and raising the alarm or the detector head with in plant-room detecting the fire.

You need to establish what went wrong with the equipment as normally y they would have inverters on the motors to prevent them overloading etc but as you say you will need to wait on the report.

As for isolation of equipment this isn't likely to be covered in a fire risk assessment as this would be down to your own site procedures as access should be controlled to transformers but they should have seen the equipment and identified the lack of fire detection in the area. also a site plan is a good idea for the fire service identifying transformers and isolation of other services like gas and drainage system of the site in case polluted water escapes.

A fire risk assessment is looking at life safety not necessarily property safety although that will come into it but it very much looks at ensuring everyone can escape from the building. You can expect a visit from the enforcement officer soon especially if the fire fighter weren't happy with how things went during the fire.

Phil
firesafety101  
#7 Posted : 22 March 2010 16:17:44(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

Some disagreement there?

I agree with Heather the fire risk assessor should have looked at the area as it could be a high risk area, especially as it is unattended. Yes good housekeeping in all similar areas is important.

What else was involved in the fire? The way you put it the room was involved significantly, that area should be clear of all combustible materials, as per a good fire risk assessment.

Could it be that the fire started in something other than the compressor and then spread to the compressor?

You may need to have a good look at the fire risk assessment again to see if that area has been ignored. Is there any mention of that area in the report? Wasthe fire risk assessor shown around the premises or left alone? You should look at the fire risk assessor as it appears there could be a competence issue. Whoever employed the fire risk assessor is responsible for ensuring competence. Your Insuraners may have a view on this.

I know that if I did the fra the boiler rooms and similar areas would definitely have been inspected.

Further, you could seek guidance from the servicing company re their service. I know an MOT/test is only good for the moment it is done but a service should provide a machine in good working order without faults. Is there a service report? If so does it indicate further work/replacement required?

"I think there is more to this than first meets the eye"?



firesafety101  
#8 Posted : 22 March 2010 16:19:42(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

Phil, property protection and life safety are integral. I know what you mean but people must consider both together when fire risk assessing.

PhilBeale  
#9 Posted : 22 March 2010 17:10:11(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
PhilBeale

Thanks Chris

yes of course as part of a fire risk assessment you would look at the premises (escape routes fire exits smoke detection and fire integrity of the building etc etc.). To ensure that people on the premises have adequate time to escape in a fire situation. That is what a FRA is there to ensure that evacuation can take place from the premises in a timely manner.

Phil
firesafety101  
#10 Posted : 22 March 2010 18:50:07(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

Safetyman - what happens next?

You will probably be visited by the local fire safety officer who will ask to see your fire risk assessment. If it does not cover the boiler room area where the fire was then you could be in for a prosecution on the grounds that it was not "suitable and sufficient"? This is usually the case when employers are prosecuted, if you look at fire prosecutions they are usually after a fire.

I suggest you urgently review the fire risk assessment and if in doubt seek advice from another fire risk assessor. If you need to take further action try to start before the fire officer visits, you will then be seen to be attempting to rectify any previous errors.

Good luck.

David Bannister  
#11 Posted : 22 March 2010 19:11:26(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
David Bannister

I would suggest that most fire risk assessments are done to comply with the law i.e. RR(FS)O and as such concentrate on life safety issues. An astute and interested assessor may comment on property and business risks from fire but this would be over and above what most assessments do, unless specially comissioned as a property and business risk assessment.
Consequently if a plant room is well separated from the normally occupied areas and presents little additional life risk it may well be deemed appropriate to be unprotected; it (as always) depends entirely on the circumstances.
Furthermore, if the cause of the fire was mechanical failure it is not realistic to expect a fire risk assessment to pick this up, unles there had been an obvious complete failure to maintain.
I do not know whether the assessor did a good job in this instance but I would hesitate to condemn him on this evidence.
safetyman2010  
#12 Posted : 22 March 2010 19:26:43(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
safetyman2010

Hi, thanks for your responses. I know the Fire Assessor and he is certainly a competent and thorough assessor. I have made contact to ask to review our FRA and develop it into a more specific assessment of the site and processes in light of this event. However it does appear this fire is the result of a mechanical failure that has resulted in this event. Not an excuse as we should have detection and suppression due the location and promixty of other hazards and remote location. We are trying to progress a very poor site safety culture and mgt system so this is not a shock.
bleve  
#13 Posted : 22 March 2010 19:32:24(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
bleve

Having investigated a number of air compressor fires you may want to consider the following scenario:

Fire initiated by electrical fault, i.e. motor overload protection failure, poor/faulty contacts at motor.

This electrical malfunction ignites noise insulation panels/lining, which is often combustible and or oil soaked with or without dust and debris.

Radiant heat causes a considerable amount of oil within the compressor to reach flash point and this subsequently ignites.
PhilBeale  
#14 Posted : 23 March 2010 08:50:24(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
PhilBeale

ChrisBurns wrote:
Safetyman - what happens next?

You will probably be visited by the local fire safety officer who will ask to see your fire risk assessment. If it does not cover the boiler room area where the fire was then you could be in for a prosecution on the grounds that it was not "suitable and sufficient"? This is usually the case when employers are prosecuted, if you look at fire prosecutions they are usually after a fire.

I suggest you urgently review the fire risk assessment and if in doubt seek advice from another fire risk assessor. If you need to take further action try to start before the fire officer visits, you will then be seen to be attempting to rectify any previous errors.

Good luck.



I don't think it is likely they will go for prosecution straight away if there was any sort of failing then they would serve an enforcement notice. more likely they will will send a letter stating what the issue is and what they would require for it to be corrected (which has already been identified install a smoke detector in all plant-rooms).
PhilBeale  
#15 Posted : 23 March 2010 08:53:15(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
PhilBeale

stuff4blokes wrote:
I would suggest that most fire risk assessments are done to comply with the law i.e. RR(FS)O and as such concentrate on life safety issues. An astute and interested assessor may comment on property and business risks from fire but this would be over and above what most assessments do, unless specially comissioned as a property and business risk assessment.
Consequently if a plant room is well separated from the normally occupied areas and presents little additional life risk it may well be deemed appropriate to be unprotected; it (as always) depends entirely on the circumstances.
Furthermore, if the cause of the fire was mechanical failure it is not realistic to expect a fire risk assessment to pick this up, unles there had been an obvious complete failure to maintain.
I do not know whether the assessor did a good job in this instance but I would hesitate to condemn him on this evidence.



Thanks Stuff4blokes that's what i was trying to say earlier the difference between a life safety and property protection. Only you worded much better.

Phil
Heather Collins  
#16 Posted : 23 March 2010 10:17:52(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Heather Collins

stuff4blokes wrote:
I would suggest that most fire risk assessments are done to comply with the law i.e. RR(FS)O and as such concentrate on life safety issues. An astute and interested assessor may comment on property and business risks from fire but this would be over and above what most assessments do, unless specially comissioned as a property and business risk assessment.
Consequently if a plant room is well separated from the normally occupied areas and presents little additional life risk it may well be deemed appropriate to be unprotected; it (as always) depends entirely on the circumstances.


I completely agree with this and recognise that the primary prupose of most FRAs is life safety. My concern was more that Gavin implied that his assessor had not even included thia area in the risk assessment. A good fire risk assessment should look at every area of a building - plant rooms, voids, cupboards under the stairs even external sorroundings. You never know what you might find in these hidden places!

If your assessor did look in all areas Gavin then no problem. He may well not have thought it appropriate to recommend AFD and of course would not have been expected to see anything wrong with the compressor under normal circumstances - assuming it was not surrounded by combustible storage or anything similar, which ultimately contributed to the growth and spread of the fire.
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