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mike52  
#1 Posted : 29 March 2010 15:47:57(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
mike52

Can anyone explain why workers (exspecially in construction) like wearing their hard hats back to front, i.e. with the peak to the back of their heads.

IMO I would have thought that if they are not wearing them as they were designed that would be a breach safety rules, but I am willing to stand corrected. If they are in breach why do they get away with it?

This question is for no other reason than my own curiosity. As I see a lot of workmen wearing their hats this way.

Mike



blodwyn  
#2 Posted : 29 March 2010 15:58:56(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
blodwyn

If you have ever worn a hard hat for any period of time especially where there are low hazards you will knowthe guys actually often end up bumping their heads as the peaks can obscure the upward vision. Typically it is the brickies going up and down the ladders who are most common in this but many others. As long as the hat is on their head - also the hats are round so it really makes not a lot of difference apart from the fact the harness is lower at the back and probably makes their foreheads sweaty.

I've not hear of any accidnets where people have been injured when wearing their hat the wrong way round if I'm honest.
ahoskins  
#3 Posted : 29 March 2010 16:01:49(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
ahoskins

Presumably, either to prevent the rain from running down the back of their neck, or to look 'cool' as per the baseball cap equivalent...

:-)
carefulnow  
#4 Posted : 29 March 2010 16:16:38(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
carefulnow

The peaks can obscure upward vision e.g. when going up a ladder on a scaffold and so some trades will wear them backwards.
Surveyors/scaffolders hard hats have a shorter peak.
firesafety101  
#5 Posted : 29 March 2010 16:28:49(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

You need to do a PPE risk assessment. If the PPE is not being worn as it is designed there is something wrong, perhaps with the hats or with the site management?

The hat is designed with a peak to protect the nose and front of the face. If this is not required then change the style of hat.

You will note that when the hat is worn back to front the face is then exposed, it may protect the head from a falling object but what if the object hits the face when the hat is worn incorrectly.

I wear my hard hat at all times when on site, properly, OK it's not all day but I do make a point of wearing it.

Climbing ladders and looking up is not usually a problem for me, so why let the workers make it a problem. Manage the situation!

stephendclarke  
#6 Posted : 29 March 2010 18:41:24(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
stephendclarke

Hi,
Operatives have been known to cut the peak off because it obscures vision; really the helmet should be compatible with the work being done. It is possible to obtain helmets without a peak which can be more acceptable for such as surveyors and scaffold erectors because there is nothing obstructing their upward vision, it would be interesting to know if there are any accident stats comparing peaked v peakless, I have heard of someone being injured by the peak when wearing the helmet back to front. Although you can always impose a blanket rule for all and often its necessary unfortunately you can’t watch all the workforce all the time so if an alternative design is available that does the job and is more acceptable to those doing the work then why not provide some choice.
Regards
Steve
xRockape  
#7 Posted : 29 March 2010 18:51:35(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
xRockape

In my view, the incorrect use of equipment as designed. Could result in prosecution following a serious accident. If i were you i would insist on the correct use or you may be found wanting in court.
David H  
#8 Posted : 29 March 2010 19:30:25(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
David H

An assessment of the reasons for wearing them the wrong way must be the first step.
If it is deemed neccesary to wear them and not just a whim of the management team - and every other opton has been discounted - then enforce the rules.

David
frankc  
#9 Posted : 29 March 2010 21:50:30(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
frankc

When i was working on BP at Saltend, the safety officer said to me "Get that lad to turn his helmet round the right way or tell him to f**k off site. It's not a fashion accessory" and as he rode away on his pushbike, he shouted "That's the last time i warn him".
Needless to say, he never turned it round again.
Solomon  
#10 Posted : 30 March 2010 08:23:32(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Solomon

Many years ago I was informed that the helmets are designed in such a way that the strap at the back, when worn correctly, prevents the helmets falling off and this was subsequently demonstrated to me.

There are comments here with regards to peaks being cut off etc, would we accept fingers cut off gloves; toe caps cut out of boots (yes I've seen it), overalls tied round the waist, dust masks on the head (maybe that's the way forward for head protection), the answer I believe is no, so why should we accept wilful damage to helmets and incorrect use of said items.

If suitable equipment is identified and provided, the answer is not always wear it or get off site, it starts with education and supervision/monitoring and then as a last resort 'wear it or get off site'.

Solo!
broadvalley  
#11 Posted : 30 March 2010 08:41:59(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
broadvalley

Not sure if it is a myth - but I was told that a Hard Hat worn incorrectly increases the risk of serious neck injury on impact.
frankc  
#12 Posted : 30 March 2010 09:31:54(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
frankc

When i worked at BP on Saltend, one of our lads used to work with his helmet the wrong way round. The safety officed said to me "Get that man to start wearing his helmet correctly or he can leave the site now"......although he used a selection of different words not suitable for a forum.
He added "There will be no further warnings"
It was the last time the helmet was worn incorrectly.
Dazzling Puddock  
#13 Posted : 30 March 2010 10:38:26(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Dazzling Puddock

blodwyn wrote:
If you have ever worn a hard hat for any period of time especially where there are low hazards you will knowthe guys actually often end up bumping their heads as the peaks can obscure the upward vision. Typically it is the brickies going up and down the ladders who are most common in this but many others. As long as the hat is on their head - also the hats are round so it really makes not a lot of difference apart from the fact the harness is lower at the back and probably makes their foreheads sweaty.

I've not hear of any accidnets where people have been injured when wearing their hat the wrong way round if I'm honest.


Many forklift drivers will do the same so they can see up more easily whilst stacking in racking!

It is easy to turn the webbing cradle on the inside of the hat around so that the adjuster is still at the back!
I think this is one area where we as safety people may baulk at the concept of an individual adapting work equipment to suit their needs and most will state that because it is not being used as designed, it is not acceptable!

Does it really make any difference to the safety performance of the hat?
delwynne  
#14 Posted : 30 March 2010 11:13:53(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
delwynne

Some hardhat manufacturers do test their hard hats 'both ways round', in which case there is probably not a significant issue. Of course if the manufacturer of your particular brand of hard hat does not test both ways then I guess you would not be compliant with manufacturers instructions and would be liable if anything did go wrong.

I'm sure I recall an example of an accident where something fell on a chaps head and it was shown that it was the peak of his hard hat (worn the wrong way around) that dug into the neck bones and broke his neck but this may be one of those urban myths you get told as a newbie on site to encourage you to wear the hard hat the right way round!
broadvalley  
#15 Posted : 30 March 2010 11:23:46(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
broadvalley

Another reason for not wearing head protection correctly - I recall in war films (Apocalypse Now for example) - soldiers would sit on their helmets during helecopter raids to protect another part of their anatomy.

Sorry if slightly off topic but I suppose in some cases protection provided by PPE is down to the perception of the wearer.
PhilBeale  
#16 Posted : 30 March 2010 11:25:20(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
PhilBeale

"Does it really make any difference to the safety performance of the hat?"

Surely that's the problem none of us can say you have to follow the manufacturers instructions. if it states the hat can be worn both ways then that's fine but if it states it should be worn with the peak to the front then that's the way it has to be worn.

The hard hat has been designed to absorb forces in certain direction by adjusting the hat to something it wasn't designed to do then no longer will it perform it's function.

It's for the manufacturer to state how the hat should be worn not for H&S bods to have their own take on take on the matter.

Phil
Invictus  
#17 Posted : 30 March 2010 11:51:10(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Invictus

xRockape wrote:
In my view, the incorrect use of equipment as designed. Could result in prosecution following a serious accident. If i were you i would insist on the correct use or you may be found wanting in court.


You do mean for the employee under section 7 and 8 of the health and safety at work act. The employer can only train and monitor him if he is not under direct supervision then he will change it once no one is around.
Steve Sanders  
#18 Posted : 30 March 2010 14:22:11(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Steve Sanders

I see some interesting comment, so here’s my view.

A hard hat is a 2 part safety system, a hard shell and a shock absorber. It is important that the shock absorber is fitted correctly, the orientation of the hard shell is less important. When I come across people wearing them the wrong way around I try to get them to reverse the webbing so the shock absorber works.

A worse problem than wearing them the wrong way round, is wearing them over a bobble hat or baseball cap.

Steve
safetyamateur  
#19 Posted : 30 March 2010 14:57:17(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
safetyamateur

Steve Sanders wrote:
A worse problem than wearing them the wrong way round, is wearing them over a bobble hat or baseball cap.


Steve, I'm interested in why that is the case. Is it that the impact may knock the hat and minimise protection?
xRockape  
#20 Posted : 30 March 2010 19:57:25(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
xRockape

Farrel, your comment above about the employee changing the direction of the hat when not being watched, hints at a very poor health and safety culture and perhaps the need for some disciplinary action. I doubt your local HSE/LA inspector will agree that its an employee problem if you have not addressed both culture and discipline.
Steve Sanders  
#21 Posted : 31 March 2010 12:20:10(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Steve Sanders

safetyamateur wrote:
Steve Sanders wrote:
A worse problem than wearing them the wrong way round, is wearing them over a bobble hat or baseball cap.


Steve, I'm interested in why that is the case. Is it that the impact may knock the hat and minimise protection?


Yes, the hard hat is in no way offering any protection.

Steve
DEC1888  
#22 Posted : 31 March 2010 15:01:41(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
DEC1888

Hats are designed with peak at front to be worn with peak at front, anything else is misuse
Simple as that
Yossarian  
#23 Posted : 31 March 2010 15:13:59(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Yossarian

Loads of ex-cathedra assertions here.

Can anyone supply any research, or evidence of tests to formally close the issue though?

I like to deal in facts rather than opinions.

Thanks.
David Bannister  
#24 Posted : 31 March 2010 15:14:33(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
David Bannister

Surely it is very foreseeable that a hard hat will be worn back to front. Thus the manufacturer should be taking that in to account in their safe design.
Yossarian  
#25 Posted : 31 March 2010 15:19:52(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Yossarian

stuff4blokes wrote:
Surely it is very foreseeable that a hard hat will be worn back to front. Thus the manufacturer should be taking that in to account in their safe design.


I would have thought so too Stuff, but again without the evidence from say the BS/ EN schedule for hard hat testing, it's not an assertion I'd stand by on a web forum.
sean  
#26 Posted : 31 March 2010 15:21:22(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Guest

It really makes no difference, from years of experience working on sites, i can tell you that the hats are only good for protecting your head from falling objects.
if you fall the hat will come off, nobody wears the strap to keep it on your head, so if its back to front or not, it will save you from falling objects.
Post over!
Yossarian  
#27 Posted : 31 March 2010 15:42:55(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Yossarian

There is of course Construction Information Sheet 50 (page 2 "Some do's and don'ts..."), but as I can't find it on the HSE website, I'll have to go to a secondary source:

http://www.thebswa.plus....pment_Safety_Helmets.pdf

...But it still doesn't give me the rationale as to 'why' it doesn't provide proper protection when worn backwards.
emsie  
#28 Posted : 31 March 2010 15:58:07(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
emsie

There is considerable confusion and misinterpretation about whether OSHA allows hard hats to be worn backward.

Prior to allowing employees to wear their hats backward, always get written verification from the hard hat manufacturer on whether your hard hat model has been tested and found to be compliant when worn with the bill turned to the rear. The manufacturer may specify that proper performance requires the suspension to be reversed in the helmet, so that the headband is oriented normally to the wearer's head (i.e., with the brow pad against the forehead and the extended nape strap at the base of the skull). In this manner, only the shell of the helmet is positioned backward on the head.

If you are ever in doubt about the use or maintenance of your hard hat, contact the manufacturer directly for instructions and recommendations. The cost of maintaining and replacing your hard hat is well worth the benefits.

Hein Ellis  
#29 Posted : 31 March 2010 19:30:22(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Hein Ellis

I might be a little out of my league here, as I note most comments are from guys in the construction industry. From a oil and gas industry I would like to say the following. In accordance with the PPE at work regulations 1992, PPE IS TO BE WORN CORRECTLY. Thus wearing it the wrong-way around constitutes a breech of this act. Should a injury occur due to the incorrect wearing of the PPE item, this person can be found guilty of Negligence. As many others have said, it would maybe be wise to have a look at why it is preferred to wear it the wrong way around. Maybe due to obscuring vision by the "front lip" of the hard-hat, or purely as someone else mentioned that it is "cool". Hard-hats are designed to be worn in a specific way to ensure full protection, and can't see that wearing it the wrong way round will effectively give the full protection. So in short. Incorrect wearing of PPE in any form, constitutes a breech of the PPE regulations, and also the duty to care to him/herself. Hope this was factual enough. What are your opinions on this.
Yossarian  
#30 Posted : 31 March 2010 23:34:14(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Yossarian

Hein,

You are absolutely correct Reg wise, but I guess I'm being the annoying kid at the back of the class going "but why??"

Is it because the hard hats are deliberately constructed weaker at the back? If so, that doesn't seem ethical.

Is it because the webbing will be the wrong way round? Then why not reverse it.

Is it because the peak will dig into the neck if knocked? Could it not be argued that it provides extra neck protection.

Is it because it looks daft? Then just say so.

Maybe the answer is "Just because!" but it is not a particularly intellectually satisfying one.
Yossarian  
#31 Posted : 31 March 2010 23:52:11(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Yossarian

mike52 wrote:
Can anyone explain why workers (exspecially in construction) like wearing their hard hats back to front, i.e. with the peak to the back of their heads.

IMO I would have thought that if they are not wearing them as they were designed that would be a breach safety rules, but I am willing to stand corrected. If they are in breach why do they get away with it?

This question is for no other reason than my own curiosity. As I see a lot of workmen wearing their hats this way.

Mike


Sorry for hijacking your topic, so I'll answer what I have been told when asked and solutions we worked out.

1) "The peak obstructs my view when driving the FLT." - Solution, surveyors helmet.

2) "It looks cool!" - Solution, explanation of Regs, company policy, PPE design criteria and a talk with key factory personnel which resulted in a "campaign" to change workplace perceptions involving unflattering comparisons with 80's rap artists.

...I didn't specify the latter - they came up with that themselves, but it seemed to do the trick.
Hein Ellis  
#32 Posted : 01 April 2010 10:55:50(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Hein Ellis

Yossarian wrote:
Hein,

You are absolutely correct Reg wise, but I guess I'm being the annoying kid at the back of the class going "but why??"

Is it because the hard hats are deliberately constructed weaker at the back? If so, that doesn't seem ethical.

Is it because the webbing will be the wrong way round? Then why not reverse it.

Is it because the peak will dig into the neck if knocked? Could it not be argued that it provides extra neck protection.

Is it because it looks daft? Then just say so.

Maybe the answer is "Just because!" but it is not a particularly intellectually satisfying one.



My humble opinion. Manufacturers of PPE put many man hours, and money into designing a product that will protect the user off it. If it was designed to be worn both ways round, they would probably be called something like - Universal Hat's. The webbing is designed to fit behind the occipital bone of the head (back part) specifically to ensure that it is held to the head in a secure position. The front "lip" is specifically designed as protection from sun, and also to take some force from a frontal impact.
Honestly if someone wants to wear a hard had the wrong way around purely because it looks cool, maybe he should consider a different occupation.
PPE standards are there to protect the person wearing it from personal injury, and can not expect a company to be held liable should he get injured due to his non-compliance in manufacturers recommendations.

If this is really a big problem, then consider a different style of PPE or hardhats as it may.

The "Cool" excuse is not acceptable in any industry. Safety first like we all now.

But this said I see where you are coming from. Out here where I am, they remove the webbing because the hard hat fits better over there beanies. If we find them doing that, we remind them of the PPE standard, and second offense is dismissible.
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