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Pyle900283  
#1 Posted : 01 April 2010 08:23:06(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Pyle900283

At work im growing more and more concerned about employees not reporting accidents as they occur.Can anyone give me advice on the folowing? If an employee phones in on and reports that he isnt coming to work because he hurt his back ,at work, one or two days previosly ,but didn't report, it is it common practice to challenge the fact that the accident actually occured at work? Similarly employees stating that they cant carry out certain tasks because they "hurt themselves yesterday" is getting to be a regular occurance.
Linda  
#2 Posted : 01 April 2010 09:43:50(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Linda

Hi I would challenge this within my work place, and would question why an accident form had not been filled out, i would sit down and explain the sickness policy with them and inform them of the importance of reporting such incident and the legality of the above
MaxPayne  
#3 Posted : 01 April 2010 10:17:32(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
MaxPayne

Accident Definition: The word accident is derived from the Latin verb accidere, signifying "fall upon, befall, happen, chance." In its most commonly accepted meaning, or in its ordinary or popular sense, the word may be defined as meaning: some sudden and unexpected event taking place without expectation, upon the instant, rather than something that continues, progresses or develops; something happening by chance; something unforeseen, unexpected, unusual, extraordinary, or phenomenal, taking place not according to the usual course of things or events, out of the range of ordinary calculations; that which exists or occurs abnormally, or an uncommon occurrence. The word may be employed as denoting a calamity, casualty, catastrophe, disaster, an undesirable or unfortunate happening; any unexpected personal injury resulting from any unlooked for mishap or occurrence; any unpleasant or unfortunate occurrence that causes injury, loss, suffering, or death; some untoward occurrence aside from the usual course of events. An event that takes place without one's foresight or expectation; an undesigned, sudden, and unexpected event. It's unclear from your post whether there is a real problem with safety (manual handling?) or whether the general culture is poor regarding a robust absence management strategy and/or its application by management. Either way you have to deal with the issues else it will be ongoing.
amorris  
#4 Posted : 01 April 2010 11:55:30(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
amorris

Hi, Completely agree it should be challenged BUT you need to record it as an accident. Employees have the right to tell you about an accident at any point, and having experience of back pain, it can take 24hrs or more for the pain to actually start after a (bad) lift. If you have a discretionary sick pay system or performace related pay, it is possible that something could be written into that re accident reporting timescales.
Reed21854  
#5 Posted : 01 April 2010 12:19:49(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Reed21854

Hello there I would certainly challenge the individual concerned - at induction and on various other safety related training all staff in our company are advised that following any incident at work a report must be made in the accident book and forwarded to the H&S Manager for investigation. In particular on our manual handling training we specifically advise people to report what might appear to be minor back injuries at the time as often following a night in bed if you've hurt your back you don't realise how severe the injury is until the next day. Good luck with trying to address this issue - you will always get the odd person who doesn't report things straight away....
Ron Hunter  
#6 Posted : 01 April 2010 12:38:56(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

I suggest you need a firmer policy on this, however arrangements have to "fit" your activities and methods of working. Where you have remote/peripatetic workers working without direct supervision (for example) it becomes increasingly difficult to implement a procedure. Irrespective of that it is "usually" possible to report an accident before end-of-shift (directly or by 'phone) and. One could accept the odd one slipping through the net, however emerging trend or culture may need a variety of interventions, ranging from improved investigation processes, induction and training/toolbox talks/ clear and concise disciplinary and attendance management procedures, etc. etc.
safetyamateur  
#7 Posted : 01 April 2010 13:37:42(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
safetyamateur

For me, everything qualifies for a report, no matter how long after the event, and the investigation will establish if there's anything good, bad, indifferent, fraudulent etc.
PIKEMAN  
#8 Posted : 01 April 2010 15:45:12(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
PIKEMAN

In my considerable experience of such things, DO NOT allow a retrospective accident report except the next day after a back injury - since these may only show up the day after the "accident". Once "in the book" these "accidents" gain traction, become statistics and the subjects of compensation claims etc. I can assure you that, having worked in safety management in some safety excellent organisations, it is important, inded the norm to challenge any dubious reporting, and not allow retrospective reports unless circumstances are exceptional. I used to work with a very good safety manager whose mantra was "if it didn't go straight in the accident book, it didn't happen at work!"
Steve Sedgwick  
#9 Posted : 01 April 2010 16:10:20(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Steve Sedgwick

Well said G, I wouldnt accept it at face value either. Highly unlikely it was a work related event Pyle, start your investigation immedeately with the mans team and supervisor and record their responses. Ask, what hew was doing that day, did he complain to anyone at the time, any history of back pain, has he played football etc since that day. The other thing is that if he is allowed to be off now it will be weeks before he returns. He obviously wants to withdraw from work. After 7 days he will need a Fit Note from his GP. It will be interesting to see how these new fit notes will affect absence. Steve
xRockape  
#10 Posted : 01 April 2010 20:36:40(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
xRockape

Sorry but i disagree with the last couple of posts. All accidents/ near misses should be investigated to ascertain there validility. This can normally be done quite quickly and then you can decide to report or not. But if you dont investigate then you risk a later serious accident that could have serious ramifications for the company. If the injured person then complains about your failure to report to the authorities you may find yourself £5,000 out of pocket!!
xRockape  
#11 Posted : 01 April 2010 20:42:57(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
xRockape

Sorry, just realised that none of the above posts did not say that you should`nt investigate, so appologies may be due. I stick by always carrying out an investigation and then reporting if your findings require it.
Steve Sedgwick  
#12 Posted : 01 April 2010 22:42:53(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Steve Sedgwick

Rock you are right, we must investigate the allegations immediately and we said this. With regard to RIDDOR if it is decided not to report then we must have records to justify our decision not to. I am not sure if the fine is £5000 or £8000, maybe someone could comment. The important thing to me is that we do not allow fraudsters to divert important Safety resources away from the real risks by concocting stories so they can have several weeks away from work and a good lump sum for him/her and their solicitor. Steve
Dave C  
#13 Posted : 03 April 2010 13:40:58(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Dave C

And does anyone who has posted thus far work for a company whose policy is that an employee who is off sick due to an accident at work receives full pay whilst they are off? Yet another difficulty when accidents are reported "late".
Wizard  
#14 Posted : 04 April 2010 11:36:44(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Wizard

All, Is this topic really about the reporting of accidents or the real issue of reporting sick? I would have thought it would be fundemental that the company have a reporting procedure / policy for either and that all matters are conducted through HR. HR will then request assistance from safety to investigate an accident once they have verified it happened in the location and time stated. Regards Wizard
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